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[Glowcat]

Games are changing for the better, but not because of pop feminism. That has already proven to have nothing but negative results.

I don't want to say Feminist because, well, they been involved for a long time and was steadily gaining ground within the gaming culture. It is this new way of pop feminism and its aggressive "videogames should be ashamed of themselves because they hurt women everywhere" that I think is more of a problem... or the "Women are so equal to men, lets treat them special to prove it" tokenism that insults everyone instead of focusing on how it is no big deal and how people need to calm the heck down.

I guess what I am saying is... Hmm can't complain until the 25th so that is all I can say.

Reality makes this claim demonstrably false.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/1/6094019/saints-row-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women-volition

"I think that we tried to go and carry ourselves with respect, and try to respect sexuality and respect gender as much as we can, and sometimes we fail but hopefully we'll do better and continue to get better," Jaros said.

Just one solid example of how "pop feminism" is drawing awareness to issues of representation and at least making people think about them more. However this is how it works across the board, with people actually thinking about these issues thanks to it being brought to their attention.

Representation is changing, slowly, for the better... but it's not helped by the people kicking and screaming at feminists. Quite the contrary. It's because there are developers who are actually engaging with the criticisms, coming to panels and discussing the themes around their art in feminist or LGBT circles. Sometimes they don't agree, but neither do all feminists agree about where the lines are drawn. I'm actually keeping up with a lot of them, watching the conversation develop even while internet boards are filled with kneejerk reactions against feminist criticisms, and when you pretend the improvement in representation (away from hamfisted inclusions) is "organic" that's ... just not very astute.

[Phmcw]

Sorry, I was being reductionist.
Though, thinking about it... I remember someone (Yahtzee, I believe) discussing how important the main character's femininity was to the plot, in the same way that James Sunderland had his masculinity tied to the plot of Silent Hill 2.
I believe he named Bayonetta as an example. Any other good ones, fine folk of Bay12?

If you take the option of being a woman in mount & blade it get important for the plot.

[Neonivek]

Reality makes this claim demonstrably false

Ohhh my... some person said a phrase... That changes my entire world... Ohh wait... it changes nothing.

Thanks Reality, you still have my back. Saints Row 1, 2, 3, and 4 were all made without any interference or input from Anita Sarceesian. Unless the developer makes Saints Row 5 where the Saints Row female members aren't fetish personas and wearing outfits similar to the male ones... It just doesn't fly.

Though Anita Sarceesian is the worst person to reference when you are talking about having a "positive effect on videogames" in reality.  I know it isn't her fault, mostly, but she has done more to discredit her ideas then anyone else in the last 5 years.

Just one solid example of how "pop feminism" is drawing awareness to issues of representation and at least making people think about them more.

People didn't need pop feminism for that. People were quite aware thanks to feminism

[Fniff]

Okay, so what's the difference between pop feminism and (presumably) actual feminism?

[Neonivek]

Okay, so what's the difference between pop feminism and (presumably) actual feminism?

They are both feminists.

But basically

A is B

B is not A

[Fniff]

Wouldn't you say that's too basic?

[Phmcw]

I find this VERY interesting because what you just said... Could also be considered INCREDIBLY sexist.

Yeah, with thought police, things get that way untill you actually cannot discuss any related issues at all without taking an huge risk. Then peoples make a board that decide what is right and wrong, and things get messy real quick.

That's how you get mccarthyism, USSR, inquiition and other "fun" things.

[Graknorke]

I thought you got those by being paranoid; having a fuckhueg landmass, population, and social reform; and wanting to remove kebab respectively.

[Phmcw]

I thought you got those by being paranoid; having a fuckhueg landmass, population, and social reform; and wanting to remove kebab respectively.

Nope, it's what happen when you have an group of peoples in charge of morality. It's an emergent property of peoples, you'll notice those structures often if you look for them.

[Urist Tilaturist]

One gets all of these by being paranoid. Stalin was know for his paranoia; the Inquisition was borne from fear that heathens and heretics would undermine the state and the Church.

[Caz]

Yet... Yeah when was the last time a videogame actually let the protagonist get pregnant and not make it like a jump cut "ohh look I already had a baby" like Fable 2 and 3 does it.

Sims.

[Furtuka]

Yet... Yeah when was the last time a videogame actually let the protagonist get pregnant and not make it like a jump cut "ohh look I already had a baby" like Fable 2 and 3 does it.

Sims.

I think the Harvest Moons that have gender selection do too? I haven't played them so I'm not sure.

[i2amroy]

The more recent ones, yeah, they were certainly and early converter to being able to choose your gender.

[majikero]

There is the girl version but I think the DS games had boy/girl choices.

For Rune Factory, Tides of Destiny in the PS3 feels like your interaction with the bachelors as a guy works better if you were a girl. RF4 you can choose gender and can change your physical appearance but still plays as your chosen gender so yeah.

[Neonivek]

Yet... Yeah when was the last time a videogame actually let the protagonist get pregnant and not make it like a jump cut "ohh look I already had a baby" like Fable 2 and 3 does it.

Sims.

I didn't count that mostly because The Sims doesn't have a protagonist.