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[smeeprocket]

yea as women have become more outspoken, the backlash has become greater.

It could be a matter of things getting worse before they get better, but that's the kind of thing that still needs to be fought hard.

[itisnotlogical]

that's just confusing in between all the threads I remember about how inferior and dumb women are and things they would do to slut shame and hurt women on there in general.

It's just as likely they were also responsible for the doxxing though. It's like, the majority of 4chan is horribly racist, but there are small pockets that aren't racist at all.

Also,I think some people just show up to watch the cesspit in action.

What boards have you been on? /vr/ (retro gaming) mostly has threads of people talking about obscure games they loved as a kid, or arguing about scanlines and CRT televisions. /tg/ (tabletop gaming) is mostly complaining about how expensive Games Workshop is, or saying that the new D&D is shit. /3/ is 50% shitposting and 50% honest critique of eachother's work. /r/ is where you go if you're looking for an image and can't find it anywhere (may or may not be porn).

4chan is much, much, MUCH, MUCH bigger than /pol/, /v/ and /b/.

[Kingbodz]

that's just confusing in between all the threads I remember about how inferior and dumb women are and things they would do to slut shame and hurt women on there in general.

It's just as likely they were also responsible for the doxxing though. It's like, the majority of 4chan is horribly racist, but there are small pockets that aren't racist at all.

Also,I think some people just show up to watch the cesspit in action.

What boards have you been on? /vr/ (retro gaming) mostly has threads of people talking about obscure games they loved as a kid, or arguing about scanlines and CRT televisions. /tg/ (tabletop gaming) is mostly complaining about how expensive Games Workshop is, or saying that the new D&D is shit. /3/ is 50% shitposting and 50% honest critique of eachother's work. /r/ is where you go if you're looking for an image and can't find it anywhere (may or may not be porn).

4chan is much, much, MUCH, MUCH bigger than /pol/, /v/ and /b/.

/tg/ is not about hating on GW. Its about talking about tabletops and making awesome quest threads and making delightful homebrews.

[Graknorke]

It's like, the majority of 4chan is horribly racist, but there are small pockets that aren't racist at all.

This is at least, if not more invalid than saying that feminists hate men and want them castrated.
4chan at least doesn't create a cohesive identity to stand behind.

[Caz]

It's a concept, around which different ideologies are built.  That's why it's hard to pin down.

People will find anything to argue about, I suppose.

From an ideological viewpoint, perhaps now that women would have voice enough to speak up, now that it's okay to speak against how women are protrayed in video games, for example, the backlash and outcry against it (even here!) could raise itself in kind and set progress back for a long time, or could be spoken against as being pointless or valueless and snuff that growing voice.

It's a social idea, a social view that may be at peril here. There is an opportunity to effect change in the way people see other people, and it could be lost. I can't speak of a person danger or danger to women, not being one, but I'll honor that danger anyways.

That women are even speaking up is a step in the right direction, imo. I don't think they're going to stop doing it just because a few people put threats against them for speaking out, and the more awareness generated by this can only help in the long run. Hard to joke about such opinions just being a bit of fun when there is mass outrage because of death threats and the like.

[smeeprocket]

It's like, the majority of 4chan is horribly racist, but there are small pockets that aren't racist at all.

This is at least, if not more invalid than saying that feminists hate men and want them castrated.
4chan at least doesn't create a cohesive identity to stand behind.

stereotyping a website and stereotyping a civil rights movement are slightly different lol

[Kingbodz]

It's like, the majority of 4chan is horribly racist, but there are small pockets that aren't racist at all.

This is at least, if not more invalid than saying that feminists hate men and want them castrated.
4chan at least doesn't create a cohesive identity to stand behind.

stereotyping a website and stereotyping a civil rights movement are slightly different lol

This is true.

[Graknorke]

stereotyping a website and stereotyping a civil rights movement are slightly different lol

It's the line of reasoning I'm on about.
"I saw things I don't like, everything associated must be something I don't like" is not really productive to anyone.

Sure, everyone makes judgements like that because if you never assumed anything you'd be paralysed by lack of information to act on, but at least acknowledging that you're going to make assumptions that may be incorrect is a good step towards not falling victim to them.

[penguinofhonor]

It's not just preferences. Sexist and sexualized depictions of women measurably decrease women's self-image and measurably lower men and women's opinions of womens' mental/physical capabilities.

That was one of the links I didn't read, but let me humor you and assume for the moment that you're factually correct.

So what?

What are you proposing be done? Do you suggest making these things illegal? Because if not, if you're simply saying "maybe these things aren't healthy" then ok, that's fine. But we do lots of unhealthy things. You may a well complain that people smoke and drink alcohol. Those probably aren't the healthiest things in the world either.

If women are being abducted at gunpoint and tried to chairs and compelled to consume media that has harmful effects on their psyche, ok, that's a problem. But if people are making content available that people want and choose for themselves...as I've said before, I'm not comfortable telling them they can't have it.

Any of you ever read a mass consumption grocery-store-checkout romance novel? A lot of those are probably psychologically unhealthy too. I read one once and it was basically 200 pages of "I get to be raped and it's not my fault!" But I'm not about to tell women they can't read that.

I don't want to make them illegal, but let me humor you and assume for the moment that I do.

If this was purely an opt-in thing where people who want to see sexualized women are allowed to, I'd be fine with that. But you don't have to be abducted to be exposed to them, you just have to go out in public. People of all ages, even impressionable children, see them in ads and posters and trailers. You can't browse through games without seeing plenty of sexualized women.

Cigarettes are a good comparisons because these games could be handled similarly. Like secondhand smoke laws, you could only play them in private or in an area where it's understood that there will be sexualized women, to prevent your behavior from negatively affecting others. There could also be laws regulating their advertisement and requiring them to be sold separately from regular games.

[Loud Whispers]

sources? I spent a lot of time on 4chan, no way 4chan was supporting women anything.

itisnotlogical got a lot of what I'd say; it's a collective of individuals. I'd ask you where you spent your time on 4chan, at what times, on what boards because it doesn't seem like you were lurking more; I've been on there since 2006 and I can say with pride it's ruined my life. If there's one thing you can say about 4chan for certain is that you can't say anything about if for certain, because it isn't some concrete political machine with a coherent command structure or something. Everyone is equal and everyone has a voice, their own ideas and consensus is cosmically rare.
Missing out on TFYC though? Shit, that sparked the death knells of /v/ AND /pol/. It's a defining moment in the histories of not one, but three chins and every single board on the half. I don't know how you missed it.
Here's their site.
Linky to forbes
I'll have to stop here as Toady's banned Gamergate talk and I'm not one to push the limits beyond what's already been said by others.

[Caz]

If this was purely an opt-in thing where people who want to see sexualized women are allowed to, I'd be fine with that. But you don't have to be abducted to be exposed to them, you just have to go out in public. People of all ages, even impressionable children, see them in ads and posters and trailers.

Cigarettes are a good comparisons because these games could be handled similarly. Like secondhand smoke laws, you could only play them in private or in an area where it's understood that there will be sexualized women, to prevent your behavior from negatively affecting others. There could also be laws regulating their advertisement.

PC madness, man. Are you going to make women in low-cut tops illegal too?

[Kingbodz]

It's not just preferences. Sexist and sexualized depictions of women measurably decrease women's self-image and measurably lower men and women's opinions of womens' mental/physical capabilities.

That was one of the links I didn't read, but let me humor you and assume for the moment that you're factually correct.

So what?

What are you proposing be done? Do you suggest making these things illegal? Because if not, if you're simply saying "maybe these things aren't healthy" then ok, that's fine. But we do lots of unhealthy things. You may a well complain that people smoke and drink alcohol. Those probably aren't the healthiest things in the world either.

If women are being abducted at gunpoint and tried to chairs and compelled to consume media that has harmful effects on their psyche, ok, that's a problem. But if people are making content available that people want and choose for themselves...as I've said before, I'm not comfortable telling them they can't have it.

Any of you ever read a mass consumption grocery-store-checkout romance novel? A lot of those are probably psychologically unhealthy too. I read one once and it was basically 200 pages of "I get to be raped and it's not my fault!" But I'm not about to tell women they can't read that.

I don't want to make them illegal, but let me humor you and assume for the moment that I do.

If this was purely an opt-in thing where people who want to see sexualized women are allowed to, I'd be fine with that. But you don't have to be abducted to be exposed to them, you just have to go out in public. People of all ages, even impressionable children, see them in ads and posters and trailers.

Cigarettes are a good comparisons because these games could be handled similarly. Like secondhand smoke laws, you could only play them in private or in an area where it's understood that there will be sexualized women, to prevent your behavior from negatively affecting others. There could also be laws regulating their advertisement.

This would never pass in 100 years knowing the internet, and america.

[smeeprocket]

stereotyping a website and stereotyping a civil rights movement are slightly different lol

It's the line of reasoning I'm on about.
"I saw things I don't like, everything associated must be something I don't like" is not really productive to anyone.

Sure, everyone makes judgements like that because if you never assumed anything you'd be paralysed by lack of information to act on, but at least acknowledging that you're going to make assumptions that may be incorrect is a good step towards not falling victim to them.

it's hyperbole. As I said, there's a big difference. There can be no correlation drawn between the two.

It does not end in people getting hurt or oppressed, it is just ultimately an opinion that affects nothing.

It's like me being told that because I feel we should tax the rich harder in general, my line of thinking would ultimately lead to wanting to murder them.

edit: lying down now. I'm sure there will be tons to read tomorrow

[Rolan7]

I just hate Metroid Other M so very much.  It's like some otaku wrote a fanfiction where they, as Adam Malkovich, got to order Samus around and save her from Ridley and paralyze her (what) then save her life again through heroic self sacrifice.  And she goes along with it all because he can't write female characters so she's a 1-dimensional waifu with a baby fixation who needs a firm heroic man to face enemies she's already killed by this point in canon.

Which is fine, I mean, there's some dumb-ass fan fiction out there.  Except...
It's totally canon (and possibly the last one)
It's programmed by ... Team (Jiggle) Ninja.  And her power armor keeps disappearing mid-fight somehow even though that's never happened before.
Okay, fine, I'll just ignore it - OH WAIT, the story was written by the same guy who wrote the rest of the games (except the Prime trilogy).  So Samus was retroactively a traumatized submissive pining over her dead master, it just never came up until this travesty wedged into the narrative.  (Not counting her comic book backstory, where she was a young girl.  Of course she was traumatized *then*, but then she killed Ridley and avenged her parents)

Oh, and the Prime Series?  Declared noncanon.  Even though it was far better gameplay and story wise, but I guess he didn't like an actually competent team having anything to do with his deadly-yet-subservient waifu.

Ugh, just... fuck that guy.

It's like the opposite of Tomb Raider.  Lara Croft was designed to be a strong female role model, but due to technical limitations became a popular example of gamers demanding unrealistic boobies.  Eventually a game was made where she got actual character development, looked realistic, and kicked a lot of ass.

While with Metroid we find out that we only *thought* Samus was a strong role model because the NES/SNES didn't let this dumbass write much.

Mainly posting this rant because I don't expect it to actually bother anyone.  Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Other M is awful.  Even some random athletic guy in the grocery store who complimented my Metroid Metal shirt (<3). 

I checked the current Steam sales looking for examples of exploitation but didn't see any major ones.  Just a bunch of military shooters and cartoony indie games.  Very few women at all, actually.  The ones I saw had boob armor, which is of course ridiculous and somewhat pandering, but it was at least better than this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.moddb.com/games/unreal-ii/images/unreal-21

(Sorry I know that's from 2003 but I just had to share it, my sides, why do people like me buy stuff like that)

[Kingbodz]

I just hate Metroid Other M so very much.  It's like some otaku wrote a fanfiction where they, as Adam Malkovich, got to order Samus around and save her from Ridley and paralyze her (what) then save her life again through heroic self sacrifice.  And she goes along with it all because he can't write female characters so she's a 1-dimensional waifu with a baby fixation who needs a firm heroic man to face enemies she's already killed by this point in canon.

Which is fine, I mean, there's some dumb-ass fan fiction out there.  Except...
It's totally canon (and possibly the last one)
It's programmed by ... Team (Jiggle) Ninja.  And her power armor keeps disappearing mid-fight somehow even though that's never happened before.
Okay, fine, I'll just ignore it - OH WAIT, the story was written by the same guy who wrote the rest of the games (except the Prime trilogy).  So Samus was retroactively a traumatized submissive pining over her dead master, it just never came up until this travesty wedged into the narrative.  (Not counting her comic book backstory, where she was a young girl.  Of course she was traumatized *then*, but then she killed Ridley and avenged her parents)

Oh, and the Prime Series?  Declared noncanon.  Even though it was far better gameplay and story wise, but I guess he didn't like an actually competent team having anything to do with his deadly-yet-subservient waifu.

Ugh, just... fuck that guy.

It's like the opposite of Tomb Raider.  Lara Croft was designed to be a strong female role model, but due to technical limitations became a popular example of gamers demanding unrealistic boobies.  Eventually a game was made where she got actual character development, looked realistic, and kicked a lot of ass.

While with Metroid we find out that we only *thought* Samus was a strong role model because the NES/SNES didn't let this dumbass write much.

Mainly posting this rant because I don't expect it to actually bother anyone.  Pretty much everyone seems to agree that Other M is awful.  Even some random athletic guy in the grocery store who complimented my Metroid Metal shirt (<3). 

I checked the current Steam sales looking for examples of exploitation but didn't see any major ones.  Just a bunch of military shooters and cartoony indie games.  Very few women at all, actually.  The ones I saw had boob armor, which is of course ridiculous and somewhat pandering, but it was at least better than this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.moddb.com/games/unreal-ii/images/unreal-21

(Sorry I know that's from 2003 but I just had to share it, my sides, why do people like me buy stuff like that)

This makes me want to rip that dudes head off. Samus is like the 2nd best bounty hunter next to Boba Fett.