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[Graknorke]

My basic human rights does not come down to politics.

It... does actually. The UN charter of human rights is the result of politics, is enforced by politics, and there's a lot of politics around it.

[Neonivek]

but it can be addressed specifically in all areas. Gaming is but one of many categories where this is a problem.

What do you mean specifically? What's the point? The cure for the problem in all areas is basically the same and involves a shift in attitude about women for most of the population. Which is happening, to be fair.

no, no it's not at all. Things are more dangerous for people who speak out now than ever. And feminism is far more vilified.

My experience is that is is definitely not getting better.

Either way, you can shift the opinions one area at a time, it's far too big a problem to just try and move everyone all at once. the individual issues need to be discussed.

Feminism is not a thing that really needs to be protected nor something that is really a "measure of goodness".

It is just one political viewpoint.

Most people agree with many of the tenants of feminism but disagrees with many of the finer points.

civil rights and the fight for equality is not a political view, tyvm. My basic human rights does not come down to politics.

"Civil rights and quality for everyone" isn't what is being vilified.

Feminism the idea that women should be treated equally is perfectly intact.

Feminism the ideology and feminism the political view... are.

And as people have pointed out. Ideas are not people, they do not deserve any special protection against scrutiny.

[smeeprocket]

My basic human rights does not come down to politics.

It... does actually. The UN charter of human rights is the result of politics, is enforced by politics, and there's a lot of politics around it.

I don't know how that relates. My point being that human rights are inalienable. They are essential, not something that really comes down to personal opinion. Like there's a legitimate opposition to women being treated equally.

It's like the argument for slavery, it's not right.

[Caz]

Do you think men are objectified in media as well? Men are always subjects. The main character for the vast majority of AAA games where you can't actually pick your gender, is male.

There's a widely-held belief in the gaming industry that games with female-only leads won't sell as well. It might not be true, but most aren't going to risk the finances on it.

Maybe I play different games to the norm, but I really haven't seen that much sexism in games. Maybe if I played more FPS-style games that are marketed towards male teenagers or something, but I really don't see it.


Edit: I go off for some tea, come back, 9 new replies posted. >_>

[Gentlefish]

"Civil rights and quality for everyone" isn't what is being vilified.

Feminism the idea that women should be treated equally is perfectly intact.

Feminism the ideology and feminism the political view... are.

And as people have pointed out. Ideas are not people, they do not deserve any special protection against scrutiny.

And... Why are you vilifying feminism? You are contradicting yourself.

[smeeprocket]

but it can be addressed specifically in all areas. Gaming is but one of many categories where this is a problem.

What do you mean specifically? What's the point? The cure for the problem in all areas is basically the same and involves a shift in attitude about women for most of the population. Which is happening, to be fair.

no, no it's not at all. Things are more dangerous for people who speak out now than ever. And feminism is far more vilified.

My experience is that is is definitely not getting better.

Either way, you can shift the opinions one area at a time, it's far too big a problem to just try and move everyone all at once. the individual issues need to be discussed.

Feminism is not a thing that really needs to be protected nor something that is really a "measure of goodness".

It is just one political viewpoint.

Most people agree with many of the tenants of feminism but disagrees with many of the finer points.

civil rights and the fight for equality is not a political view, tyvm. My basic human rights does not come down to politics.

"Civil rights and quality for everyone" isn't what is being vilified.

Feminism the idea that women should be treated equally is perfectly intact.

Feminism the ideology and feminism the political view... are.

And as people have pointed out. Ideas are not people, they do not deserve any special protection against scrutiny.

your views of feminism are shaped by outside sources. I highly doubt you have done any research yourself. I also question whether you are even aware of the intricacies of feminist thought as a whole. 

[Graknorke]

I don't know how that relates. My point being that human rights are inalienable. They are essential, not something that really comes down to personal opinion. Like there's a legitimate opposition to women being treated equally.

It's like the argument for slavery, it's not right.

Through your view of the world.
They're not down to personal opinion, they're down to the opinions of a lot of people all coming together and deciding which of the opinions they share should be enforced.

[smeeprocket]

Do you think men are objectified in media as well? Men are always subjects. The main character for the vast majority of AAA games where you can't actually pick your gender, is male.

There's a widely-held belief in the gaming industry that games with female-only leads won't sell as well. It might not be true, but most aren't going to risk the finances on it.

Maybe I play different games to the norm, but I really haven't seen that much sexism in games. Maybe if I played more FPS-style games that are marketed towards male teenagers or something, but I really don't see it.


Edit: I go off for some tea, come back, 9 new replies posted. >_>

What about Tomb Raider then? While one of the attractions was the appearance of Lara Croft, she was a strong female lead. Or a game like Mass Effect, or Borderlands. You can have options if a female leader by herself isn't what you want. Options are nice.

And the male dominated video game industry hasn't done a lot to test out that feamle lead theory anyway, I suspect it's based on their own assumptions, or the assumptions of marketing, and marketing depts seem to always be composed of 1950s males.

[LordBucket]

When did I imply that rape is the victim's fault? Or are you quoting Lord Bucket?

quoting LordBucket, sorry.

If you think I was claiming that rape is the victim's fault, then you completely misunderstood the point I was attempting to convey.

[Caz]

no, no it's not at all. Things are more dangerous for people who speak out now than ever. And feminism is far more vilified.

My experience is that is is definitely not getting better.

To my knowledge gender equality has been increasing every year. How has it become more dangerous for people to speak out?  In no country has this trend been going backwards, unless you count some of the hell holes in the middle-east.

[Neonivek]

"Civil rights and quality for everyone" isn't what is being vilified.

Feminism the idea that women should be treated equally is perfectly intact.

Feminism the ideology and feminism the political view... are.

And as people have pointed out. Ideas are not people, they do not deserve any special protection against scrutiny.

And... Why are you vilifying feminism? You are contradicting yourself.

Because Feminism isn't one thing. There is no contradiction there.

Just because you agree with an idea "Women should have equal rights to that of men" doesn't mean you necessarily agree to an idea's ideology.

Add in that there are many Feminist ideologies... and there you go.

your views of feminism are shaped by outside sources. I highly doubt you have done any research yourself. I also question whether you are even aware of the intricacies of feminist thought as a whole

No, I did quite a bit of research and used to be a feminist.

In the end though I found that things became too nuanced and in the end the types of feminism I got into were too tyrannical and puritan.

I officially stopped being an open feminist around the time I researched into the paygap and found out that... It is a WAY more complicated subject then you can convey with simple statistics.

[Caz]

And the male dominated video game industry hasn't done a lot to test out that feamle lead theory anyway, I suspect it's based on their own assumptions, or the assumptions of marketing, and marketing depts seem to always be composed of 1950s males.

Yes, probably.

[smeeprocket]

I don't know how that relates. My point being that human rights are inalienable. They are essential, not something that really comes down to personal opinion. Like there's a legitimate opposition to women being treated equally.

It's like the argument for slavery, it's not right.

Through your view of the world.
They're not down to personal opinion, they're down to the opinions of a lot of people all coming together and deciding which of the opinions they share should be enforced.

I don't think you can make a particularly successful argument for the systemic oppression of an entire gender. Also blah blah constitution.

[Loud Whispers]

4chan is to blame for the doxxings because they think of women's rights like how politicians in the 1700s did. A big joke.

TOP KEK M8
4chins didn't do the doxxings, they happened against people they liked whilst all the boards from /a/ to /v/ were caught in their own board chaos and gestapo mod b&. Even the GG refugees in /pol/ had disclaimers to not doxx and not to harass anyone except the mods of 4chan. The doxxings against the Quinn lot weren't even real doxxes, they all led to fake addresses leading some to suspect they were false flags.
/v/ bankrolled TFYC who are a radical feminist group who were running a women-only game design contest because they were being attacked and doxxed by beta white knights and their handlers. /v/ BANKROLLED A RADICAL FEMINIST GROUP RUNNING A WOMEN-ONLY GAME DESIGN CONTEST BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING ATTACKED AND DOXXED BY BETA WHITE KNIGHTS AND MODS DOING IT FOR FREE.
THE WORLD IS PANDEMONIUM!
4chan bankrolled a radical feminist group because they were being doxxed and harassed. I cannot stress this enough nor stress just how fucked up the world is when the people who should be amoral are taking the moral highground and the people who should be moral are sinking fast.

I haven't really been keeping up with the rest of what everyone else is talking about but this niggled me enough to demand response. Inb4 gorillion ninjas

[TamerVirus]

oh yes, nothing could possibly go wrong with a thread like this