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[smeeprocket]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

tell me this is an ironic copypasta

It totally is I stole it from a troll from ED.

what is ED?

[Neonivek]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

We can totally act on that.

Don't buy the fucking games. Easy. Play Kerbal or (vanilla) Skyrim or literally any other game that doesn't have abuse or rape as a main plot point.

Ignoring most games don't have that (and if you are stretching the definition Skyrim REALLY REALLY doesn't count)...

That is basically what everyone here does already and what all gamers do. They let their feelings inform their buying choices. It isn't something the industry needs to change but rather react to.

That is basically... doing nothing.

exactly, and those who refuse to be part of the solution are ultimately part of the problem

Well no. People are free to agree and disagree as they so freely chose and act on their differences.

There is no need to indoctrinate everyone into your way of thinking and to label everyone else as people who proliferate sexism.

It is why we have the market set up as we do.

[Graknorke]

exactly, and those who refuse to be part of the solution are ultimately part of the problem.

Because the best way to win people's support is to declare them enemy and tell them they support rape.
Stay classy.

[itisnotlogical]

what is ED?

About the only thing I can reply to because the discussion's long outpaced me.

Take the media caricature of 4chan where everybody is just awful to eachother all the time and there is porn on literally every page, then make that a wiki. That's the best I can come up with. It's pretty tasteless and crass. It's a wiki for all the awful, offensive stuff that shows up on the Internet (not gonna mention specific examples because there is nasty shit there).

[Kingbodz]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

tell me this is an ironic copypasta

It totally is I stole it from a troll from ED.

what is ED?

encyclopedia dramatica forums. Don't go there they'll laugh you out of town and probably ban you for being a feminist because they are all trolls. Their wiki is good for a laugh though if you're in a bad mood and aren't easily offended because they make fun of everyone even themselves. EDIT: itisnotlogical is right its pretty tasteless.

[Caz]

I don't think Bay12 has had a thread about women that hasn't caught fire almost immediately.

Not sure what violence against women in games has to do with rape and abuse irl either. But the thread will probably detonate before I get a chance to discuss it...

[smeeprocket]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

We can totally act on that.

Don't buy the fucking games. Easy. Play Kerbal or (vanilla) Skyrim or literally any other game that doesn't have abuse or rape as a main plot point.

Ignoring most games don't have that (and if you are stretching the definition Skyrim REALLY REALLY doesn't count)...

That is basically what everyone here does already and what all gamers do. They let their feelings inform their buying choices. It isn't something the industry needs to change but rather react to.

That is basically... doing nothing.

exactly, and those who refuse to be part of the solution are ultimately part of the problem

Well no. People are free to agree and disagree as they so freely chose and act on their differences.

There is no need to indoctrinate everyone into your way of thinking and to label everyone else as people who proliferate sexism.

It is why we have the market set up as we do.

I would say the same about anything. If the status quo is flawed, and you maintain the status quo, you are perpetuating it.

As a consumer it comes down to how interesting the game is versus how much you care about women's issues. It's an easy decision for a lot of male gamers, tbh.

But also, speaking out about this, using your voice, which might resound more with the male developers, to strengthen the voices of women gamers, helps as well.

Most people don't care about these things unless it affects them directly though. And currently, the system is weighted in favor of male gamers, giving them very little incentive to want to see things change.

[smeeprocket]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

tell me this is an ironic copypasta

It totally is I stole it from a troll from ED.

what is ED?

encyclopedia dramatica forums. Don't go there they'll laugh you out of town and probably ban you for being a feminist because they are all trolls. Their wiki is good for a laugh though if you're in a bad mood and aren't easily offended because they make fun of everyone even themselves. EDIT: itisnotlogical is right its pretty tasteless.

why would I even go somewhere like that?

I can find anti-feminist threats, etc on facebook and tumblr just fine.

edit: Graknorke

you are putting some interesting words in my mouth.

[Gentlefish]

exactly, and those who refuse to be part of the solution are ultimately part of the problem.

Because the best way to win people's support is to declare them enemy and tell them they support rape.
Stay classy.

Actually. Once you're educated of a problem but refuse to do anything about it,

you actually really do become part of the problem. There is a problem. Smeep is aware of the problem. Smeep does their best to not buy certain products. Smeep is not part of the problem. Neonivek admits it is a problem. Neonivek says there's nothing to do. Neonivek buys the prodicts. Neonivek is part of the problem.

I don't think Bay12 has had a thread about women that hasn't caught fire almost immediately.

Not sure what violence against women in games has to do with rape and abuse irl either. But the thread will probably detonate before I get a chance to discuss it...

It's a problem because it normalizes violence against women IRL. See: Any video talking about a woman speaking out about any kind of sexism in a game. The chances are pretty damn near 100% that they will receive terrible threats from "offended" male gamers. And they don't even make the games the woman is talking about!

[Neonivek]

The status quo is that things are improving smeeprocket.

Sounds like a pretty good status quo to maintain.

Most people don't care about these things unless it affects them directly though.

Believe it or not, most gamers actually care. They just don't care as much as a lot of people portray the issue.

They want women to stop looking stripperific... they don't see the subjugation of women when they see it... they just see something stupid and inane.

It is kind of why I have such a relaxed take on the issue... because as bad as it is... It is getting better. People will call games out on sexism.

[Kingbodz]

I wish more women in games were like Brienne of Tarth. And dressed like her because she actually wears armor and not a plate bikini.

[smeeprocket]

The status quo is that things are improving smeeprocket.

Sounds like a pretty good status quo to maintain.

Most people don't care about these things unless it affects them directly though.

Believe it or not, most gamers actually care. They just don't care as much as a lot of people portray the issue.

They want women to stop looking stripperific... they don't see the subjugation of women when they see it... they just see something stupid and inane.

If it is getting better, which I question, it is only with significant backlash and the developers being dragged kicking and screaming down progress lane. These things don't just fix themselves.

I have found very few gamers that care about these issue, less than support the threats and doxxing of females who speak out, actually.

[Shinotsa]

Question: how many of these "products" actually exist outside of skyrim mods and the like? Additionally, why are we even talking about rape at all? The thread is on women in video games. I'm pretty sure there are more relevant positions on that topic than "rape is bad"

[Caz]

It's a problem because it normalizes violence against women IRL. See: Any video talking about a woman speaking out about any kind of sexism in a game. The chances are pretty damn near 100% that they will receive terrible threats from "offended" male gamers. And they don't even make the games the woman is talking about!

Do you think violence against men in video games normalises violence against them IRL as well? I don't think women speaking out is necessarily limited to the topic of sexism in video games. It's more of a problem that most of society doesn't really consider a woman's opinion to be as valid as a man's, which is shitty, but not unique to gaming.

[Empiricist]

They want women to stop looking stripperific... they don't see the subjugation of women when they see it... they just see something stupid and inane.

Don't forget inefficient as well, developers could probably save a bit of time of just having clothing and whatnot be gender-neutral.