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[Gentlefish]

This thread is moving so fast it's on fire.

Yeah. Having a tough time keeping up. And some of the links people are giving are like 10 minutes of reading. And I'm not even sure why we're talking about rape and unattractive guys in movies in getting girls all of the sudden. I might have to bow out.

The point being pervasive Male Gaze in all forms of entertainment, and how it affects how women are treated in videogames because the "gaze" of the player is that of a male. And how the woman is an object for the male to attain in society, and thinks he deserves as an award for being male.

-snipped for font-

It normalizes it, and that makes it worse.

[smeeprocket]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

[Neonivek]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

Which you still haven't really explained other then

"Violence in videogames makes you a violent person" except replace violent with abusive.

Can you prove that videogames normalize abuse to women? that because of videogames we can co-relate that people think that abuse to women is just a part of life and that... really... everyone does it...?

You say it normalizes it... but does it?

Violent movies don't normalize murder. What does abusing women have as a significant difference?

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah I'm with you LordBucket, I'm lurking now. Posts going too fast, all of you need to give editing some love

[Gentlefish]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

Which you still haven't really explained other then

"Violence in videogames makes you a violent person" except replace violent with abusive.

Can you prove that videogames normalize abuse to women? that because of videogames we can co-relate that people think that abuse to women is just a part of life and that... really... everyone does it...?

Okay so those men who play video games?

Totally throw sexist, abusive comments at female gamers.

tl;dr woman talks about getting harrassed in video games, gets death and rape threats in real life.

[smeeprocket]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

Which you still haven't really explained other then

"Violence in videogames makes you a violent person" except replace violent with abusive.

Can you prove that videogames normalize abuse to women? that because of videogames we can co-relate that people think that abuse to women is just a part of life and that... really... everyone does it...?

I'm not actually drawing a correlation between real life and the games. I'm saying we shouldn't trivialize these matters ever. Though I do think the pervasive male gamer view of women is sexist and even dangerous. I am not sure if I can make a connection directly.

[Reelya]

According to a 2014 report from the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics covering the period 1995 to 2013,[1] 0.2% of women aged 18–24 enrolled in a college, university or trade school were victims of rape.

Source: Smeep's link

Id be interested in their definition because BoJ also has a 12% rape rate for women as a whole last time I checked.

http://www.popcenter.org/problems/rape/

Those are lifetime prevalence, not during college. The BoJ data from the campus rape wikipedia article are the per year chance. (0.2% chance per year of being raped during 1 year of college, 0.4% chance of other sexual assaults which are not defined as rape).

[Ogdibus]

Yeah I'm with you LordBucket, I'm lurking now. Posts going too fast, all of you need to give editing some love

They are becoming LoudBucket and Lord Whispers!

[penguinofhonor]

"Do videogames make abuse worse in Real Life?"

As the current topic.

So we have to currently assess the damage.

I'm just going to drag up this Palsch post from an old sexism thread. There are sources if you follow the link.

Sexualised female characters have measurable and negative effects on immediate attitudes towards women, and negative effects on female player's self image. While it's not extreme, there were measured reductions in women's self-efficacy after playing as a sexualised character. They also measured significant changes in attitudes among both men and women, with them having lower opinions of women's physical and mental capacities. The study was limited in scope and size, but it's worth noting that prior studies had found stronger effects (notably hits to self-esteem that weren't measured here) so I'm fairly confident saying this is reasonable low-end measure of the negative immediate effects of sexualised female video game characters.

Which is to say, playing games with sexualised characters can change how people think about women in a negative manner and to a real, measurable degree.

This doesn't mean that sexualised characters should never be used, but maybe it should be kept in mind before they become the default, or are argued to be empowering and positive experiences.

[Neonivek]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

Which you still haven't really explained other then

"Violence in videogames makes you a violent person" except replace violent with abusive.

Can you prove that videogames normalize abuse to women? that because of videogames we can co-relate that people think that abuse to women is just a part of life and that... really... everyone does it...?

I'm not actually drawing a correlation between real life and the games. I'm saying we shouldn't trivialize these matters ever. Though I do think the pervasive male gamer view of women is sexist and even dangerous. I am not sure if I can make a connection directly.

So then you have a moralistic objection and not a practical one that manifests in any meaningful way.

And thus your argument is more one of censorship.

[Kingbodz]

This thread is madness. I try to reply and get ninjaed.

[smeeprocket]

According to a 2014 report from the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics covering the period 1995 to 2013,[1] 0.2% of women aged 18–24 enrolled in a college, university or trade school were victims of rape.

Source: Smeep's link

Id be interested in their definition because BoJ also has a 12% rape rate for women as a whole last time I checked.

http://www.popcenter.org/problems/rape/

Those are lifetime prevalence, not during college. The BoJ data from the campus rape wikipedia article are the per year chance. (0.2% chance per year of being raped during 1 year of college, 0.4% chance of other sexual assaults which are not defined as rape)

the problem with the numbers is things like reported and forcible. Or even convicted.

The numbers are significantly higher than that. I've presented my own evidence on the matter. It seems obtuse to me to actually believe those numbers considering what is happening with rape culture in our colleges and the danger these women face after coming out. People are scared, they don't wan to say they were raped because people do awful hings to outspoken rape victims.

[Graknorke]

Yeah I'm with you LordBucket, I'm lurking now. Posts going too fast, all of you need to give editing some love

They are becoming LoudBucket and Lord Whispers!

This confused me as well. Visually similar usernames are a pain.

[Neonivek]

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

This thread is moving so fast it's on fire.

Yeah. Having a tough time keeping up. And some of the links people are giving are like 10 minutes of reading. And I'm not even sure why we're talking about rape and unattractive guys in movies in getting girls all of the sudden. I might have to bow out.

The point being pervasive Male Gaze in all forms of entertainment, and how it affects how women are treated in videogames because the "gaze" of the player is that of a male. And how the woman is an object for the male to attain in society, and thinks he deserves as an award for being male.

What is kind of REALLY interesting about this.

Is that it isn't a male thing... women centered media does this just as much (actually a lot more).

[smeeprocket]

no that wasn't the question. The problem was that people didn't understand why men committing wanton violence against women in video games was something that was a big deal.

Which you still haven't really explained other then

"Violence in videogames makes you a violent person" except replace violent with abusive.

Can you prove that videogames normalize abuse to women? that because of videogames we can co-relate that people think that abuse to women is just a part of life and that... really... everyone does it...?

I'm not actually drawing a correlation between real life and the games. I'm saying we shouldn't trivialize these matters ever. Though I do think the pervasive male gamer view of women is sexist and even dangerous. I am not sure if I can make a connection directly.

So then you have a moralistic objection and not a practical one that manifests in any meaningful way.

And thus your argument is more one of censorship.

Oh the old dictatorship argument.

Me wanting to hold the video game industry accountable for glamorizing violence against women as well as oversexualizing them and not representing almost half of their audience is not censorship. I can't force them not to make sexist shit.  I'm not putting forth a petition for the govt to shut them down. Let's not use hotbutton words like that where they are not relevant.