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Author Topic: Females in Games? Thread  (Read 164144 times)

smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #720 on: December 19, 2014, 07:54:45 pm »

Either way, the point is, yes it could be worse, the men ruling the scene could be selling us into sex slavery, but here the men... still rule the scene.


...No they don't. It's not nearly that black and white.

I disagree, based on my observations. There are certain conversations we are havning in this country that would be a non-issue if we were not in a patriarchy, ignoring the imbalance in positions of power and the treatment of crimes that are often against women specifically.
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Caz

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #721 on: December 19, 2014, 07:55:38 pm »

I disagree, based on my observations. There are certain conversations we are havning in this country that would be a non-issue if we were not in a patriarchy, ignoring the imbalance in positions of power and the treatment of crimes that are often against women specifically.

Such as?
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Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #722 on: December 19, 2014, 07:56:43 pm »

yes and that is also a very real problem which I think we can all agree I'm not arguing for. I think I speak for most gamer females when I say we want women in the game, and not in the current state where they are one dimensional T&A

Honestly that isn't even the problem a lot of the time.

Sophitia in Soul Calibur for example is my favorite character in the series mostly because of the strength of her convictions and the nuance of her character in trying to remain good but needing to skirt towards evil in order to protect the ones she loves.

Yet the games consistently make her breasts larger and larger and put her in more and more revealing clothes.

While Alisa from Dragon Quest 8... wants to kill this guy because he killed her fiancé... and that is kind of it... and she by all means wears decent clothing and has fair proportions. (She does have sexy dancing as one of her skill trees though... but I never explored that route).

The problem with female representation in videogames is more nuanced then how sexy they look or not. Most of the issues with female characters isn't that they are sexy so much that they are considered secondary just because of their gender or where their personality can be described as "female" or have projected weaknesses put on them because of their gender... or they decide to put the otherwise competent female character in a stripper outfit in the middle of the tundra.

It reminds me a lot of Madison from Heavy Rain who was a prostitute and is abused... Yet her character is so much more multi-dimensional then that and she isn't held to her career or abuse. She picks up the hero mantle and tries to save the day (Why the HECK she wasn't playable as opposed to the actual playable female character is beyond me)

It is why I made a personal rule for myself that I'd have no issue with a female character being sexy and wearing revealing even stripperific outfits... If it fit.

Because by all means sexy characters who act sexy are rare!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 07:58:59 pm by Neonivek »
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Elephant Parade

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #723 on: December 19, 2014, 07:58:25 pm »

Quote from: ed boy
-snip-
That was pretty interesting. Somebody with way too many games should analyze an equal number of games from each genre, or something.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #724 on: December 19, 2014, 07:58:38 pm »

Smeeprocket: I do not know your economic circumstances, but these have a far bigger impact on the life of the modern average American than gender does. I am in no position to comment on your wealth or education level, but if you are a graduate and live in a reasonably decent area you are a far less second class citizen than anybody in a ghetto, male or female. Your chance of being on the receiving end of injustice and crime is vastly more increased by being poor than anything else - I already gave you a source that showed that 3 quarters of US murder victims were men in another thread.

And, of course, if you do become a violent crime victim, it will likely be a poor, downtrodden drug addict who does the crime.

How much of a patriarchy is the USA? Congress is significantly majority male, so it seems that way. But the man who oppresses you is likely to be poor, stupid and not very powerful at all.

Also, please tell us your observations.
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smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #725 on: December 19, 2014, 07:59:16 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_representation_in_video_games

here's some numbers on the gender disparity among protagonists in video games.

edit: last time I made observations I got warned. :P
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 08:00:53 pm by smeeprocket »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #726 on: December 19, 2014, 08:02:07 pm »

Representing women is not a superficial quality. It is important.
You know it doesn't bother me at all that I've never seen a single game with main characters of my race. I've never seen a single game with a character of my race.
I don't give a fuck. It's not an affront to me. It's not the decision of some angry racist game developing kabal of American game developers trying to hate crime me to death. They are trying to make a game, not the cover of a school textbook.
You are judging a character's entire worth based on their most superficial quality; which contour of polygons do they have? It isn't a judgement on how developed they are, their motives, their emotions or even something like just how they are written. It has to represent, first and foremost. That is the highest priority you give it; it is tantamount to a right to see a character who is superficially like you.
I don't care about this. I see no value in this. I have never had an issue with this. I've never balked playing a female character, a white character, an American character, a non-human character, an amorphous blob and even abstract squiggles of the human form.
I refuse to judge books by their covers. If representation means arbitrarily expecting maximum diversity for any reason other than a deliberate choice for the purpose of the gameplay, story or characters themself then it is nothing short of imposing pressure on developers for political reasons. This; I honestly don't care much about. I will not fight inclusiveness, for or against. I take offence to inclusiveness being used as a shield for criticism of an industry too treacherous for words. Thank the gods for Indie games.

It bothers me that you feel tha tdoing this is meaningless or somehow requires some scheme to trick people into buying a game because it is PC. What game are you even referring to where this is a thing?
No trick to buy, a shield to avoid criticism.
Did you really just argue that appealing to more people would be mainstream and therefore would lower the quality of games? That's... for real?
Yes, and argued it before it was cool.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm talking about the big AAA developers using progressive identity politics to shield themselves from legitimate criticism; i.e. they're absolutely full of shit and should give all of their money to the beleaguered Greek government.
They are willing to use anything as their shield and because there  are fools who will support people who wave the flag of inclusiveness even when video evidence of such flagwavers being scam artists milking progressives for money is procured and they still defend them. There are people who care so little about gaming and more about social justice that they literally talk about 'fun' being a 'poisonous priority' in games. This makes it all the more easier for the world's most hated companies to keep killing gaming because they don't have to listen to criticism anymore. They can make a game with a lesbian gay woman and have Jezebel and Kotaku call gamers misogynists and call it a day whilst raking in massive dollar. The controversy alone is enough to allow developers to shut their head in the sand and slag gamers off as obese white men who hate women whilst giving the middle finger to actually trying for their games.

There are some popular games with women in them, they make money just fine. That's my point though, just because capitalistically it makes good sense doesn't mean the people steering the ship are operating solely on the base of money.
Do you understand who you're dealing with? They are the Michael Bays of video games, they exist for the money.

They too, have stereotypes and biases. And yes that will make them hire men over women and not appeal to women.
When I say game companies hire men because they are more comfortable with them, I am being polite. The alternative is they feel women are just inferior at the job and not good enough to hire. I am being optimistic. So if you prefer that outlook, that is also highly probable.
They appeal to women. They spend millions every year on marketing research in order to find out who they can better exploit. That is why mobile game apps are marketed towards women. Candy Crush. The infinity bingo apps. Kim Kardashian's Hollywood adventure. Enough said.

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #727 on: December 19, 2014, 08:04:26 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_representation_in_video_games

here's some numbers on the gender disparity among protagonists in video games.

edit: last time I made observations I got warned. :P

Make them again. If they are reasonable, and you are warned, I shall take it up with the moderators - your right to expression is as important as mine.
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smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #728 on: December 19, 2014, 08:04:36 pm »

They appeal to women. They spend millions every year on marketing research in order to find out who they can better exploit. That is why mobile game apps are marketed towards women. Candy Crush. The infinity bingo apps. Kim Kardashian's Hollywood adventure. Enough said.

Did you seriously say this? Really?

Yes MOST women totally play those games. Anytime I am put in front of an FPS I get confused and just stare at the keyboard, my small brain can't handle it. Then I go back to playing Bejeweled list most of my gender.

Also Kim Kardashian is awesome! I watch that show ALL the time! =^___^=

Honestly, I don't think that post deserves a serious response.
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smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #729 on: December 19, 2014, 08:06:14 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_representation_in_video_games

here's some numbers on the gender disparity among protagonists in video games.

edit: last time I made observations I got warned. :P

Make them again. If they are reasonable, and you are warned, I shall take it up with the moderators - your right to expression is as important as mine.

It was because I made sweeping generalizations about all men, which... can bother men in general. But I don't want to risk another warning or a flaming if I word things incorrectly without meaning to. Most of my posts aren't meant to be incendiary, and a lot of it has to do with the audience I am speaking to versus the audience I am used to speaking to.
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Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #730 on: December 19, 2014, 08:07:42 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_representation_in_video_games

here's some numbers on the gender disparity among protagonists in video games.

edit: last time I made observations I got warned. :P

Make them again. If they are reasonable, and you are warned, I shall take it up with the moderators - your right to expression is as important as mine.

It was because I made sweeping generalizations about all men, which... can bother men in general.

Well to admit... I don't think women are too appreciative of sweeping generalizations about women... in general.
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AlleeCat

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #731 on: December 19, 2014, 08:07:52 pm »

not in the current state where they are one dimensional T&A
This is all I ask for. I just want to see more female protagonists and females in general in games. I don't mind playing male characters, as long as they're their own character and not something I'm supposed to insert myself into, but I prefer playing females. I don't really care if they're in a Galbrush situation, (although the reason Galbrush doesn't work is way more complex than just "feminists would be angry!") as long as they're engaging characters.


Well, jeez.

smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #732 on: December 19, 2014, 08:09:11 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_representation_in_video_games

here's some numbers on the gender disparity among protagonists in video games.

edit: last time I made observations I got warned. :P

Make them again. If they are reasonable, and you are warned, I shall take it up with the moderators - your right to expression is as important as mine.

It was because I made sweeping generalizations about all men, which... can bother men in general.

Well to admit... I don't think women are too appreciative of sweeping generalizations about women... in general.

Which is why I understood the warning. And also why I don't want to stumble into another issue where I say something like that and get muted or the thread gets locked.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #733 on: December 19, 2014, 08:09:41 pm »

What is the audience which you are used to speaking to?

Making sweeping generalisations about men is the same as doing it for any other group. It is not good argument and should be avoided.
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ed boy

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #734 on: December 19, 2014, 08:09:45 pm »

Quote from: ed boy
-snip-
That was pretty interesting. Somebody with way too many games should analyze an equal number of games from each genre, or something.
I found that my experience of sexism in games didn't match the claims, so I had a look at the games I had played. I figured that given the disparity between my experience and claims of rampant sexism, either the claims were incorrect, I had missed the sexism in my games, or I had managed to avoid the sexist games. That's why I listed my games and my interpretation, so if I had missed sexism or had a nonrepresentative set of games, someone could point it out.

I also feel that the success/memorability of a game is extremely important when it comes to assessing the state of the games industry and impacts it might have on culture. After all, if I wanted I could produce an extremely basic choose-your-own-adventure style game in ten minutes that's extremely racist/sexist/whatever, but that clearly wouldn't mean anything.
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