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[Tack]

-game idea-

Bryenne of Tarth would like to disagree with you.

The basic point of fact is that many different body shapes exist.
Dark Souls 1, you can be either Male or Female- it doesn't matter. But you also choose a body-type (Large upper body, small frame, etc), which (apparently) do change your starting stats slightly.
So why not do that?

I did kill him once, but the effect it had outside of fortification hill was disappointingly small enough that I never did it again. You'd think killing the sole driving force behind the legion would put them into a big more disarray.

I didn't mind the 'Yeah, the 2IC took over, the show must go on'.
But being informed that he was off-map and I therefore couldn't also kill him was crap.

[Frumple]

Yeah it really doesn't count if the male and female character choice are two different characters.

Mm. That'd leave the Summon Nights still there, then, of the ones I've played recently (and can recall, anyway). They do a pretty bang-up job with dialogue shifts, iirc. Less so regarding mechanical changes (read: There kinda' aren't any.), but eh.

And @Eyetwo, I think Neo, at least, is thinking about games where genderflipping the same character (the MC, in most cases) has a notable difference. I'd personally expand consideration beyond that (as should be obvious given the response ), but it's fair enough to consider that as a separate consideration from games that let you choose between different gendered characters instead of simply choosing the gender of a particular one.

For that, the Gearhead games are probably about in line with the Fallout ones, now that I think about it. So there's two (Well, technically five -- SN goes for 3 games on the GBA, Gearhead has 2 on the PC) more to add to the list.

E: Oh! And I'm fairly sure some of the Super Robot Wars games have that going on, too, if my memory isn't failing me. Pretty sure a handful of 'em let you choose gender along with robot type, with all sorts of effects.

E2: And there's a fair number of CYOA or text based adventure games out there that exhibit the effect, of course. There's actually someone LPing one over in the Play with your Buddies right now.

[Sheo]

Anyway, more seriously, it sounds like somewhat of an interesting concept. The biggest issue I can see with it is sheer time constraints on actually making the game. That, or monetary ones. The issue is: How would you present all of this control in a usable format?
Would the game be real-time?
Kind of a turn-based plan-and-see?
DF-like, except even more in-depth? (Combat system. Hopefully with a good UI. xD)

Hee hee, that was slightly hypocritical of me, indeed.

But I was thinking of DF like due to the number of moves possible in realistic combat - it'd be bloody impossible to fit all the variation in a mouse strike format, or to map out each key of the keyboard to a type and direction of slash.

I was thinking very DF life - basically Adventure mode beefed up to eleven.

As to the load suggestion, I think max load would have more to do with strength than agility - plus, the speed deficit is based on real life limitations, since speed is actually dependent on one's strength, hence olympic categories.

-game idea-

Bryenne of Tarth would like to disagree with you.

The basic point of fact is that many different body shapes exist.
Dark Souls 1, you can be either Male or Female- it doesn't matter. But you also choose a body-type (Large upper body, small frame, etc), which (apparently) do change your starting stats slightly.
So why not do that?

There's also discussion of that - basically, at the start of the game, you'd roll for a char. You can't cower anymore from there - the game only has one save file and once you press new game, you're stuck with whatever you got, so say, you could get a lanky male and he'd also have a lot of deficits and limitations.

What I was thinking for women was, beyond the initial deficit, a limit to those skills and a higher max for CHR and DEX - since today's even strongest women was defeated in arm wrestling by average males, but I'm assured the most charismatic woman in the world cna use her psychological advantage to beat the most charismatic man in the world.

If that makes any sense.

So yeah - a huge endomorph like Bryenne could of course easily defeat average joe males due to the fact she trained more. Stats would be able to be raised, after all; but this theoretical Bryenne couldn't defeat a maxed male endomorph, who has higher maxes in STR than her, with pure strength.

Keep in mind the concept is for the game to consider length of weapons and other concepts, so she could best him with, say, a spear to compensate her disadvantage.

[Quartz_Mace]

-Snip-

Biologically, females have considerably less strength potential than males

-Snip-

True, but how many common soldiers reach absolute 100% muscle potential?

That game sounds incredible by the way. I'd love to see something like that made. The closest thing to a realistic medieval combat game is Chivalry(yeah, not even that close), and I'd love to see something like that.

If in the game you could train your stats up, I think that's be a great way to show female fighters training hard enough to be as effective as a male one.

[Tack]

Well a lot of games portray the 'Charismatic woman using her wiles to trick the dumb man'.
It happens a lot in real life, but some feminists don't seem to like the idea of seductiveness being used as a weapon- it kinda buys into the 'male dominated world' thing.

[UXLZ]

Hee hee, that was slightly hypocritical of me, indeed.

But I was thinking of DF like due to the number of moves possible in realistic combat - it'd be bloody impossible to fit all the variation in a mouse strike format, or to map out each key of the keyboard to a type and direction of slash.

I was thinking very DF life - basically Adventure mode beefed up to eleven.

As to the load suggestion, I think max load would have more to do with strength than agility - plus, the speed deficit is based on real life limitations, since speed is actually dependent on one's strength, hence olympic categories.

Oh god, I hope someone's good at designing an interface, then. It would also have to have more layers. Like Weapon Choice > Location Choice (says armor rather than body part, unless it's exposed) > Attack Type Choice > Force Choice > 'Tricks' Choice (like feints, I guess, though these could go into the attack type as well..) Could possibly allow stringing the attacks together in different intervals. Like a quick jab at the left knee that feints int a slash at the left shoulder or something.

Mmm... Well, I was kind of proposing that sort of system because (due to their low strength) they would be burdened more by heavy equipment, thus reducing their Strength. (Though that could be an inbuilt system as well). Up to a certain weight though, Strength won't have any easy-to-spot effect on Agility, in fact a high enough strength could conceivably make it worse.
Also, Agility =/= Speed.

E: Actually, if you are, have, or know a good writer the game could conceivably be quite excellent as a Visual Novel-esque/Life Sim game in a similar-ish style to Long Live The Queen but with the combat. Could allow for nice choices, dialogue, and story without having the game engine as a real limiting factor. (Since all the art is 2D and there aren't too many animations, rather text instead. Fits in with the whole DF-style combat system too.)

[Frumple]

Well a lot of games portray the 'Charismatic woman using her wiles to trick the dumb man'.
It happens a lot in real life, but some feminists don't seem to like the idea of seductiveness being used as a weapon- it kinda buys into the 'male dominated world' thing.

... doesn't seduction as a weapon kinda' cross the gender line going both ways? There's a fair amount of historical examples for pretty much any permutation of that, media wise you've got the seductress, you've got Bond, and so on, and so forth.

Would agree weaponized seduction's more highlighted as a female thing, but it's something that gets brought out to play on both sides fairly often, innit?

[Sheo]

Well a lot of games portray the 'Charismatic woman using her wiles to trick the dumb man'.
It happens a lot in real life, but some feminists don't seem to like the idea of seductiveness being used as a weapon- it kinda buys into the 'male dominated world' thing.

Without wanting to sound insensitive, I'm against game creators shying away from an idea for fear of offending someone - I think one's ideologies should be their own.

Plus, I don't mean seductiveness alone - women are shown to in general have an easier time making people agree to them. So, say, you made your female character from an opressed peasant into a military commander, and she's about to give a rousing speech - she'll have an advantage there.

True, but how many common soldiers reach absolute 100% muscle potential?

That game sounds incredible by the way. I'd love to see something like that made. The closest thing to a realistic medieval combat game is Chivalry(yeah, not even that close), and I'd love to see something like that.

If in the game you could train your stats up, I think that's be a great way to show female fighters training hard enough to be as effective as a male one.

Indeed - see, the disadvantage would be most visible in early and late game. Early because your starting character would be weaker to the mostly male enemies, and late because the potential of ultimate warriors is greater.

At the middle, one would simply have to train a lot.

Hee hee, that was slightly hypocritical of me, indeed.

But I was thinking of DF like due to the number of moves possible in realistic combat - it'd be bloody impossible to fit all the variation in a mouse strike format, or to map out each key of the keyboard to a type and direction of slash.

I was thinking very DF life - basically Adventure mode beefed up to eleven.

As to the load suggestion, I think max load would have more to do with strength than agility - plus, the speed deficit is based on real life limitations, since speed is actually dependent on one's strength, hence olympic categories.

Oh god, I hope someone's good at designing an interface, then. It would also have to have more layers. Like Weapon Choice > Location Choice (says armor rather than body part, unless it's exposed) > Attack Type Choice > Force Choice > 'Tricks' Choice (like feints, I guess, though these could go into the attack type as well..) Could possibly allow stringing the attacks together in different intervals. Like a quick jab at the left knee that feints int a slash at the left shoulder or something.

Mmm... Well, I was kind of proposing that sort of system because (due to their low strength) they would be burdened more by heavy equipment, thus reducing their Strength. (Though that could be an inbuilt system as well). Up to a certain weight though, Strength won't have any easy-to-spot effect on Agility, in fact a high enough strength could conceivably make it worse.
Also, Agility =/= Speed.

E: Actually, if you are, have, or know a good writer the game could conceivably be quite excellent as a Visual Novel-esque/Life Sim game in a similar-ish style to Long Live The Queen but with the combat. Could allow for nice choices, dialogue, and story without having the game engine as a real limiting factor. (Since all the art is 2D and there aren't too many animations, rather text instead. Fits in with the whole DF-style combat system too.)

I think having load influence STR is less interesting than STR influencing load - makes more sense to me, too. A strong woman would have an easier time carrying heavy loads than a weak man, for example.

How I was thinking up the combat - the game has both warriors placed against each other.

Your options are divided in three menus - Movement, Attack, Defense, and Tricks.

Movement offers you submenus charge (you can choose to connect a part of your body against one of the opponents at a certain speed, like your knee or elbow, modified by your current AGI and STR and armor types), dodge (subdivided by direction and type, roll, jump, etc), and such others.

Attack offers you strike, pierce and other options. If the opponent is heavily armored and you have enough INT and PER, you'll have lots of options of armor weak points to target, but without good DEX and decent AGI you won't be able to hit it and without good STR you won't do much.

Defense offers block and parry menus, and also defensive stances if the enemy is not attacking.

Also, in this context, AGI refers to speed of movement. Nimbleness, what agility is usually related to, would be related to DEX.

[UXLZ]

Female Seduction tends to be more... Sexual (or sexualised), though seduction is generally somewhat sexual to begin with.

A quick google image search, comparing James Bond to the first image under 'Seductress'. It's not a very good one, though...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Frumple]

Yeah, bond was just an off-the-top-of-head thing. You've got plenty of half-naked guys oiled up and raring to go screwing their way into positions of power and whatnot in fiction, though -- definitely marginally represented in gaming, but there's still bits lounging about here and there. It's a titch unfortunate, honestly. I'd kinda' love to play the game where you can sleep your way into the dowager queen's confidences or somethin'. Conceptually, anyway, providing the game was otherwise decent

[Sheo]

E: Actually, if you are, have, or know a good writer the game could conceivably be quite excellent as a Visual Novel-esque/Life Sim game in a similar-ish style to Long Live The Queen but with the combat. Could allow for nice choices, dialogue, and story without having the game engine as a real limiting factor. (Since all the art is 2D and there aren't too many animations, rather text instead. Fits in with the whole DF-style combat system too.)

Forgot about this.

While I'm a decent small-time writer according to close friends, I do know a professional one that could and would help. I think the Long Live the Queen idea could kinda work if time was spent in different origins and paths, and said format could understand my system with enough flags to mark opponent position and so forth, even if as a test for a more complicated, DF-ish RPG down the line.

I'd need a programmer and an arts guy, though, and interest.

EDIT:

Yeah, bond was just an off-the-top-of-head thing. You've got plenty of half-naked guys oiled up and raring to go screwing their way into positions of power and whatnot in fiction, though -- definitely marginally represented in gaming, but there's still bits lounging about here and there. It's kinda' unfortunate, honestly. I'd kinda' love to play the game where you can sleep your way into the dowager queen's confidences or somethin'. Conceptually, anyway, providing the game was otherwise decent

This reminds me of an idea we had while discussing Bayonetta.

Since I love that game and its concept, I'd like to challenge critics to rise when we made a game like it, but with men.

A spectacle shooter about burly men in thongs.

[UXLZ]

I think having load influence STR is less interesting than STR influencing load - makes more sense to me, too. A strong woman would have an easier time carrying heavy loads than a weak man, for example

Sorry, my wording must have been off. What I was suggesting was a sort of STR infleuncing load's influence on AGI scenario.

How I was thinking up the combat - the game has both warriors placed against each other.

Your options are divided in three menus - Movement, Attack, Defense, and Tricks.

Isn't that four menus? xD

Movement offers you submenus charge (you can choose to connect a part of your body against one of the opponents at a certain speed, like your knee or elbow, modified by your current AGI and STR and armor types), dodge (subdivided by direction and type, roll, jump, etc), and such others.

Sounds quite interesting. I'm assuming some movements would be entirely blocked off by factors such as armor (for instance, there's no way in hell you're gonna be doing a roll in full plate.)

Attack offers you strike, pierce and other options. If the opponent is heavily armored and you have enough INT and PER, you'll have lots of options of armor weak points to target, but without good DEX and decent AGI you won't be able to hit it and without good STR you won't do much.

Seemingly good concept here. I'm assuming the game will have good weapon variety?

Defense offers block and parry menus, and also defensive stances if the enemy is not attacking.

How in depth will the defensive options be? Will you have to parry in a certain direction M & B style, or is it just based on your stats and rolls with a generic 'parry' option?

Also, in this context, AGI refers to speed of movement. Nimbleness, what agility is usually related to, would be related to DEX.

Noted.

[Quartz_Mace]

A spectacle shooter about burly men in thongs.

This is a great idea...not in that way. You know what I mean. It'll show society just how bad it is to display women as sexual objects by doing the same with men.

[UXLZ]

Forgot about this.

While I'm a decent small-time writer according to close friends, I do know a professional one that could and would help. I think the Long Live the Queen idea could kinda work if time was spent in different origins and paths, and said format could understand my system with enough flags to mark opponent position and so forth, even if as a test for a more complicated, DF-ish RPG down the line.

I'd need a programmer and an arts guy, though, and interest.

Long Live the Queen was merely an example. I was essentially thinking along the lines that it has the Story Part (with the plot decisions (if it has a plot), possibly random-event choices and so on. Doesn't have to be a 'story' but it's where most dialogue and choices that aren't 'travel to X location, buy X stuff, train X skill/stat occur), the Sim Part (where you train, buy gear, work?, maybe hunt for food if you want to put that into the game, travel and so on.) and the Combat Part (using your proposed combat system.)

-sigh-, if I had my drawing tablet I could help with concept art, at least.

This reminds me of an idea we had while discussing Bayonetta.

Since I love that game and its concept, I'd like to challenge critics to rise when we made a game like it, but with men.

A spectacle shooter about burly men in thongs.

What would a spectacle shooter even look like?

Also, that sounds like quite the power fantasy for guys (which doesn't seem to be your intention), though it depends...

[Frumple]

Oil and the most magnificent ass shots, my friend. Everywhere. You can sexualize the everloving hell out of something like that if you want to.

Honestly, I'd expect it to come out looking partially like something out of a Jojo's Bizarre Adventures manga, just with less clothes and more glistening...

... which would be pretty great.