Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?  (Read 10424 times)

smeeprocket

  • Bay Watcher
  • Collectivist Socialist Feminist Freeloader
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2014, 07:02:14 pm »

wait you have a 3d printer and you are not spending all your time playing with that?
Logged
Steam Name: Ratpocalypse
Transpersons and intersex persons mod for Fortress mode of DF: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10204

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/princessslaughter/

"I can't wait to throw your corpse on to a jump pad and watch it take to the air like a child's imagination."

GiglameshDespair

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware! Once I have posted, your thread is doomed!
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2014, 07:21:23 pm »

...Are you sure 3d printed plastic wouldn't melt? Aluminium melts ~675 degrees C.

From a quick google, the melting point of 3d printer plastics is below 300'C easy. So it probably shouldn't part of the mold if it's anywhere near the actual molten metal.

Simply make a mold with wood and sand. There's plenty of instrucables etc available.
Logged
Old and cringe account. Disregard.

Bohandas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Discordia Vobis Com Et Cum Spiritum
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2014, 08:17:08 pm »

They could make a cast of the printout and use that as the mold
Logged
NEW Petition to stop the anti-consumer, anti-worker, Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement
What is TPP
----------------------
Remember, no one can tell you who you are except an emotionally unattached outside observer making quantifiable measurements.
----------------------
Έπαινος Ερις

smeeprocket

  • Bay Watcher
  • Collectivist Socialist Feminist Freeloader
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2014, 08:19:47 pm »

I'm still perplexed as to why he isn't spending his time downloading stuff for that printer and making action figures and race cars and guns
Logged
Steam Name: Ratpocalypse
Transpersons and intersex persons mod for Fortress mode of DF: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10204

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/princessslaughter/

"I can't wait to throw your corpse on to a jump pad and watch it take to the air like a child's imagination."

GiglameshDespair

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware! Once I have posted, your thread is doomed!
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2014, 08:26:44 pm »

Clearly he needs to 3d print the sword and save time.Effectiveness not guaranteed.
Logged
Old and cringe account. Disregard.

tonnot98

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damp stone located.
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2014, 11:21:37 pm »

I don't own one, a teacher at my school does and lets students use it if they have a good/fun reason to.
Logged
Not sure if dying of old age is an honor or a shame for weaponmasters. On the one hand, it means they never got the opportunity to die in glorious battle. On the other hand, it means nothing could beat them in glorious battle.
Meow.

wierd

  • Bay Watcher
  • I like to eat small children.
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2014, 01:08:16 am »

There is a reason why aluminium does not exist in appreciable quantities as a free metal in nature. (it DOES exist, but is quite rare.)

In order to smelt aluminium, you will *NEED* an inert gas smelting chamber. An additive powder+laser sintering printer will likewise require a hermetically sealed build chamber containing inert gas. (I suppose a DIY solution can be done using a Co2 laser module attached to a gantry, installed inside a suitably large glass aquarium filled with sulfur hexafluoride, or otherwise rigged to be air-tight, and filled with argon, or some similarly inert gas.  Sulfur hexafluoride has the unique property of being very much heavier than normal air, so you could fill the build chamber aquarium up by just pouring the gas inside and then turning on the printer.

This is because aluminium reacts strongly with oxygen in the air at temperatures that permit melting. Much of your aluminium cans will get turned into scummy aluminium oxide if you do not use inert gas. Some formulations of aluminium alloys can attain "Mild-steel" levels of strength and hardness, but are mostly exotic formulations with transition metals you are unlikely to get your hands on. (Like vanadium, and metallic chromium) There are a few older "aircraft aluminium" alloys, like 2025 (Aluminium and copper) and 7075 (aluminium and zinc), that could possibly be created with a home smelter. Be aware that the "Mild steel like qualities" of these formulation ONLY happens after work and heat hardening of these alloys!  At Cond-0, these are very soft.

Lead is not advisable. It makes poor quality anythings, except bullets.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:11:14 am by wierd »
Logged

Arx

  • Bay Watcher
  • Iron within, iron without.
    • View Profile
    • Art!
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2014, 01:13:52 am »

The typical thing with casting aluminium is a sand mould. You can use ordinary beach sand, I believe, although you have to mix in oil if you want to make very fine details. I doubt you'll need anything more complex for a sword, but you could also look into the lost wax method.

Before selling any sharp weapon, consider who you're selling it to, why they want it, and whether you want to help someone hurt others. It might not be the person you sell it to, but it can happen. Plus, there's almost no reason a blunt sword is less awesome than a sharp sword, other than that it's easier to kill with. This is actually part of why I stopped trying to get into metalwork, actually.

If you want to forge iron instead, I think it's actually similar temperatures, just different techniques and structures. Be wary of scrapyard steel, as it's a nightmare to figure out the quality. A piece of railway track makes a good anvil, or a tree stump even, and hammers aren't bank-breakers by any means. Sword-smithing is ninety percent grinding and polishing, so bear that in mind.

Hope this helps, and sorry for moralising at you.
Logged

I am on Discord as Arx#2415.
Hail to the mind of man! / Fire in the sky
I've been waiting for you / On this day we die.

wierd

  • Bay Watcher
  • I like to eat small children.
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2014, 01:21:11 am »

Since he intends to do smelting, I would suggest that he consider aluminium bronze, and make decorative pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_bronze

It has a very nice looking color, is reasonably hard, and mills/machines/casts well. It is possible he could obtain scrap copper to go along with his scrap aluminium.


I somehow doubt that people are going to brandish a reproduction gladius the same way they would brandish a shiny silver looking weapon.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:31:00 am by wierd »
Logged

chaoticag

  • Bay Watcher
  • All Natural Pengbean
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2014, 07:47:37 am »

Please please please don't work with aluminum unless you plan on hammering it into shape cold. I understand that it's an easier to access metal compared to iron or steel, but at this point, we're not just comparing the forging costs, but the healthcare costs. Plus, even if you can do it safely, it's going to tech you bad habits. Iron and aluminium have vastly different properties from the sounds of things.

If you really want to try casting something, you'd be better off with tin and copper into bronze, or just smelting copper. I think anyway.
Logged

NAV

  • Bay Watcher
  • I have an idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 am »

I built an awesome aluminum mace once. Aluminum will never make as good a weapon as iron, but it can certainly make an effective mace, if you make it twice the usual size then add flanges or knobs.
Logged
Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

tonnot98

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damp stone located.
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2014, 12:36:27 pm »

Isn't copper pretty expensive, though? I've heard that in burglaries, some people steal copper piping because of the value of copper.
Logged
Not sure if dying of old age is an honor or a shame for weaponmasters. On the one hand, it means they never got the opportunity to die in glorious battle. On the other hand, it means nothing could beat them in glorious battle.
Meow.

wierd

  • Bay Watcher
  • I like to eat small children.
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2014, 12:45:49 pm »

So is aluminium.  Aluminium recycling accounts for a good portion of the aluminium used in modern manufacture, since it is very (very) energy intensive to refine aluminium from ore. (many thousands of degrees to melt the chryolite, many hundreds of amperes of electricty delivered at several thousand volts through the dissolved solution, then you have the costs of disposal of the industrial effluent of spent electrolyte, etc.)

Copper is better known, and has a less common ore than aluminium, and is used all over as a conductor where aluminium is less so (it work hardens faster than copper, and thus is prone to breaking when drawn into wire), which is why more people hunt for it for black market recycling. (I call it black market, because stealing it from houses and hotels is illegal, and dealing in stolen goods is a black market) 

Industrially, the recycling of spent aluminium chips in metal fabrication is a very significant recovery stream. Good quality, unalloyed aluminium is quite valuable per pound.
Logged

Itnetlolor

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2014, 12:51:38 pm »

I have an idea: Combine the efforts.

Make an aluminum shell, and a somewhat thick one, if possible. Fill it with lead, and make yourself a mace or hammer with combined efforts. The durability from the aluminum shell, and the density of the lead. Like a large caliber round with a handle.

In theory, it might be handy; but I'm not as well-versed in this as everyone else; but it's a thought.

EDIT:
Wait a tic, memory just kicked in. That combo would make for a really bad result. Lead would soften the aluminum shell, rendering it as durable as wet paper. It would work better as a trap to use on some unsuspecting fool that is more clueless than I just was a moment ago.

EDIT EDIT:
Or was that mercury and aluminum?

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Did a search, it was mercury and gallium that resulted in really weak aluminum. Example
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:05:00 pm by Itnetlolor »
Logged

DJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are aluminum/lead weapons any good?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2014, 01:07:13 pm »

If the goal is to forge a sword, why bother casting? You need to hammer it anyway to give it structural integrity. And getting metal hot enough to work is easier than getting it hot enough to cast. Finding steel that gets malleable with charcoal fire should be doable. If rebar is like this (no clue if it is), a thick piece of it would be perfect for hammering out a sword.
Logged
Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4