Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[than402]

what are the factors that make a civilization successful (or not) in worldgen?

[Ladygolem]

It's a very complex topic, to be sure!

Off the top of my head:

• military prowess - access to effective weapons, armor, and the materials to make them; alternatively, the elf route of having armies of wild beasts;
• diplomacy - a noble with the ability to make peace treaties often is crucial, as otherwise every war the civ engages in lasts until one side is completely wiped out
• high population - whether through starting numbers, high biome support values, etc. This is also dependant on the creature - long lives and high birthrate will definitely help.
  
• the creature itself - a naturally strong or powerful species like an ogre will have an easier time than , for instance, a civilisation of fairies.
  

There are plenty more factors, some of which may differ save to save. I hope this helps.

[than402]

it helps a lot. thank you. i'm trying to make a custom race to be weak (consistenty having trouble surviving on worldgen) and another one stronger (not having trouble surviving)

[Ladygolem]

Another thing that might help is ethics - a species with many ethics conflicts with other civs is more likely to go to war with them.

[than402]

do values count too?

[pisskop]

I haven't tested much on values, but they should affect, yea.

Weapons available, breeding rate/lifespan,interactions, ranges/acceptable biomes, ethics, pantheon (i.e. gods of peace/war/victory/death/fertility) all play a part.  Civs will go to war much more if they have the resources to, as well as expand more with high population.  The level of banditry and what types of adventurers the send out count too.

Its important to remember that battles arent actually fought in worldgen, they use some abstract method of making every critter have a 1v1 duel with each other.



---
Natural skill, size, and other creature tags also play a part.

Ethics are huge.  They determine how well the civ gets along intra-civ, as well as how often/with whom they go to war with.  Gods of peace/war/victory serve to make wars more frequent.

[than402]

i see. well, thanks for your help. i'll run some tests and post the results, if i find anything interesting.

[Ladygolem]

I don't think civilisations will go to war over values. Iirc, only ethics are considered a cassus belli.

Values affect the individual personality aspects of the entity members. You've probably seen it in a dwarf's description: "Like others in her civilisation, she values working hard" or something similar. They're not absolute values but weighted preferences - some members of the entity may differ from the 'social norms' prevalent in their culture, but over all most will follow them.

[than402]

so i ran a few tests and i think i came to some conclusions:

meet the wild elves. basically elves with different ethics and an even more lenient stance on cannibalism. they also have...interesting views on theft, truthfulness, vandalism, tresspassing and animal usage (but i did made them more accepting on wood cutting because i want them to be playable and i can't have my own caravan rejecting my reaction grown wooden items)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ONLY_IF_SANCTIONED]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ONLY_IF_SANCTIONED]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ONLY_IF_SANCTIONED]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ONLY_IF_SANCTIONED]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_SERIOUS]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:MISGUIDED]
   [ETHIC:LYING:JUSTIFIED_IF_GOOD_REASON]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_EXILE]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:UNTHINKABLE]

they have wooden weapons, next to no armor, no natural allies to speak of and they can't make peace treaties. so they should get their asses handed to them by pretty much the whole world, right?

no

they were consistently doing great.

now meet the drow. despite the name, they act more like Warhammer's Dark Elves (and look like them too). They have evil ethics, many positions (based on rhenaya's mod), special OP rare castes, access to all metals (and some more), breastplates and such at common frequency, both evil and exotic animals and considerable natural skills. They should dominate everything, right?

nah, that would actually make sense

they were always bottom feeders

i asked myself: "what the hell?" and started playing with the stuff you said. here are the results:

• biome support did play a role, but it actually seemed to work in the opposite direction. the more biomes i gave the wild elves, the less they spread
• the fact that the wild elves couldn't make peace treaties did not seem to hinder them at all
  
• they both had their [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE tag too, and i had modded all elves to have a MAXAGE (a pretty big one, but it did exist)
  
• raising and lowering the natural skills (at reasonable rates) didn't do much
  
• even a small reduction to their size, however,(about 5k) did wonders at culling wild elven populations
  
• limiting access to weapons was also huge
  
• banditry and the type of adventurers had no effect at all
  
• i didn't actually test the gods
  

[Grimlocke]

Did anyone ever test what happens when you make their children grow up sooner or later?

[pisskop]

Did anyone ever test what happens when you make their children grow up sooner or later?

Logically, they should accelerate the spread of a civ, as they reach sexual maturity sooner and can fight in wars more readily.  They also would have more time to gain skills and die horribly.

But no, I cant say I readily remember and data on that.

[than402]

huh. i wonder how i missed that one... i think i'll run some tests