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I like it better than the last one

It's good, but I don't see the need with the discussion thread

It's not going to go anywhere good, just lock it now.

[smeeprocket]

Okay, this is killing me. I have a question. I promise to try to be civil and not rude. But I want to know the answers to this.

I'm in a PM discussion about this, also, actually.

http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html

So the bible teaches that men are superior to women, and has some really unusual rules like women being unclean for specific numbers of days after giving birth (much longer if it is a female child than a male child.)

Okay, so, if you, as a Christian follow rules like homosexuality is a sin, etc, do you also subscribe to the quotes therein, and how does that play out for you in day to day life, relationships, etc?

Who is this directed to?  Please direct your questions to specific individual(s).

To any Christian, multiple Christian, any other people that happen upon the thread. I assume there are multiple takes on this.

[Frumple]

... seriously, you might want to read the OP again, then follow the rules as noted. If you can't manage that, making a separate thread for the specific question would be the direction you want to go.

[MaximumZero]

EBWOP: MZ, was that you signing up to be asked questions?

Yep, and MetalSlimeHunt signed up right after me.

[TD1]

Awhhhh, no more discussion ):

Did the old thread really have so many problems?

Also,PTW.

Edit: also, I signed up, so now people can ask me questions! Huzzah, right? I'm in the non-religious category, though.

[smeeprocket]

... seriously, you might want to read the OP again, then follow the rules as noted. If you can't manage that, making a separate thread for the specific question would be the direction you want to go.

So I'm not allowed to ask all the Christians the question?

That seems kind of restrictive. And no I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want as many takes on it as possible.

Okay here, I am asking

4maskedwolf
Arx
Arcvasti

[4maskwolf]

smeeprocket: what Frumple said.  However, I will answer your question to the best of my ability.

One of the most important parts to reading the bible, in my opinion, is taking into account the social context under which the works were written.  As inspired as the works of various religions may be, it is impossible to fully escape one's own view of the world when writing.  Both the Jewish Scriptures and the letters of Paul are written by humans about human experience, and as the societies of the time were patriarchal so are their works.

Let us look at what Jesus stood for.  From my perspective, Jesus went around helping those who were marginalized by society.  He stays in the homes of tax collectors, heals lepers, recruits women to his followers, and argues against the powerful religious hierarchy of the time.  If one believes that Jesus is the true son of God, and that Jesus is divine, then how can one believe that Jesus saw women as less than men?  I have not read any bible passage where Jesus says anything of the sort.

EBWOP: MZ, was that you signing up to be asked questions?

Yep, and MetalSlimeHunt signed up right after me.

In the future, I'd like people to read the OP where I say that people should pm me with their signups so that I don't have to pick them out of the thread and possibly miss some.

... seriously, you might want to read the OP again, then follow the rules as noted. If you can't manage that, making a separate thread for the specific question would be the direction you want to go.

So I'm not allowed to ask all the Christians the question?

That seems kind of restrictive. And no I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want as many takes on it as possible.

I believe he's referring to your assumption about the Bible, which violates rule 2, which says not to present opinions or interpretations as facts.

[smirk]

... seriously, you might want to read the OP again, then follow the rules as noted. If you can't manage that, making a separate thread for the specific question would be the direction you want to go.

So I'm not allowed to ask all the Christians the question?

That seems kind of restrictive. And no I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want as many takes on it as possible.

Please begin your question with the name of the person you are asking in bold

I'm assuming you can specify multiple people, but it keeps things more orderly than untargeted inquiry. Should help the thread keep from going up in flames TOO soon, anyway.


PTW.

[4maskwolf]

A couple more people have signed up:
Th4DwArfY1: moderate atheism
MaximumZero: Humanism/Atheism

[smeeprocket]

smeeprocket: what Frumple said.  However, I will answer your question to the best of my ability.

One of the most important parts to reading the bible, in my opinion, is taking into account the social context under which the works were written.  As inspired as the works of various religions may be, it is impossible to fully escape one's own view of the world when writing.  Both the Jewish Scriptures and the letters of Paul are written by humans about human experience, and as the societies of the time were patriarchal so are their works.

Let us look at what Jesus stood for.  From my perspective, Jesus went around helping those who were marginalized by society.  He stays in the homes of tax collectors, heals lepers, recruits women to his followers, and argues against the powerful religious hierarchy of the time.  If one believes that Jesus is the true son of God, and that Jesus is divine, then how can one believe that Jesus saw women as less than men?  I have not read any bible passage where Jesus says anything of the sort.

EBWOP: MZ, was that you signing up to be asked questions?

Yep, and MetalSlimeHunt signed up right after me.

In the future, I'd like people to read the OP where I say that people should pm me with their signups so that I don't have to pick them out of the thread and possibly miss some.

... seriously, you might want to read the OP again, then follow the rules as noted. If you can't manage that, making a separate thread for the specific question would be the direction you want to go.

So I'm not allowed to ask all the Christians the question?

That seems kind of restrictive. And no I'm not trying to be difficult. I just want as many takes on it as possible.

I believe he's referring to your assumption about the Bible, which violates rule 2, which says not to present opinions or interpretations as facts.

I didn't violate any rules. The passages, which I linked, specifically refer to women being subservient to men. That is a fact, it is written.

The Bible states that it is the word of God, as opposed to written by humans. He spoke to them and they wrote it down.

Do you only take the parts about Jesus as truth, as opposed to parts before or after? Because some of those are after Jesus. That's a lot of the bible to cut out, though it certainly makes my questions more specific.

edit: also could you put the list of people on the OP, I had to dig through the thread to get my list of people to ask.

[Vilanat]

Regarding the Christianity not being monotheistic, there are few key elements which makes me pretty convinced in this opinion:

Satan as a distinct entity that battle god and can go against his will, which makes christianity theological dualistic.

The distinction between heaven and earth, as preached by jesus, separates god from the creation. god might influence or outright control the creation, but god is not the creation as to be expected in monotheism.

The trinity, which in the theological sense can be explained as "Three that are one", in practice many if not most christians fail to grasp this and give jesus a distinct position along side god and give a different function to each, sometimes seeing jesus as inferior to god.

So i think that christianity is theologically dualistic, and mostly polytheistic in practice.

[Arx]

Note: I'm the other side of the aforementioned PM conversation.

http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html

So the bible teaches that men are superior to women, and has some really unusual rules like women being unclean for specific numbers of days after giving birth (much longer if it is a female child than a male child.)

Okay, so, if you, as a Christian follow rules like homosexuality is a sin, etc, do you also subscribe to the quotes therein, and how does that play out for you in day to day life, relationships, etc?

No. Some of those are also what I think of as superficially/trying-too-hard issues as well, especially Job 25:4 and Deuteronomy 22:5.
The first is not anything to do with women. It's a common idiom to refer to all people. The second is, beyond the fact that Gentile Christians don't have to follow it, incredibly subjective. Pants don't pertain specifically to men in my opinion, nor skirts to women (see: kilts).

Then there are all the quotes from the Epistles. The interesting thing here is that almost half of all the quotes in that list are from Paul, who was a bigot of the highest degree (he hunted Christians before his conversion), and almost all of the quotes from the Epistles. That means that I tend to take a lot of his writing with a grain of salt, or several; he was just a man, not God, which means that even divinely inspired writing would be prone to his interpretation and bigotry.

Then there are the quotes from the Law of the Prophets; anything from Leviticus or Deuteronomy that does not pertain to sex, blood, or eating the flesh of sacrificed animals. Those are ignored as per Acts 15:22 and on.

The quotes regarding women dressing nicely (1 Peter 3:3, 1 Timothy 2:9) are also not read the way I do; following the teachings of Christ is a better adornment than physical ones. There is also some stuff I can;t remember perfectly about being distinct from several cults at the time that had high priestesses that dressed seductively and did other generally inappropriate things.

Also, I believe the Bible was divinely inspired. God didn't manifest in Paul's cell and dictate what he should write; and so on.

I hope that answers your question.

[smeeprocket]

Note: I'm the other side of the aforementioned PM conversation.

http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html

So the bible teaches that men are superior to women, and has some really unusual rules like women being unclean for specific numbers of days after giving birth (much longer if it is a female child than a male child.)

Okay, so, if you, as a Christian follow rules like homosexuality is a sin, etc, do you also subscribe to the quotes therein, and how does that play out for you in day to day life, relationships, etc?

No. Some of those are also what I think of as superficially/trying-too-hard issues as well, especially Job 25:4 and Deuteronomy 22:5.
The first is not anything to do with women. It's a common idiom to refer to all people. The second is, beyond the fact that Gentile Christians don't have to follow it, incredibly subjective. Pants don't pertain specifically to men in my opinion, nor skirts to women (see: kilts).

Then there are all the quotes from the Epistles. The interesting thing here is that almost half of all the quotes in that list are from Paul, who was a bigot of the highest degree (he hunted Christians before his conversion), and almost all of the quotes from the Epistles. That means that I tend to take a lot of his writing with a grain of salt, or several; he was just a man, not God, which means that even divinely inspired writing would be prone to his interpretation and bigotry.

Then there are the quotes from the Law of the Prophets; anything from Leviticus or Deuteronomy that does not pertain to sex, blood, or eating the flesh of sacrificed animals. Those are ignored as per Acts 15:22 and on.

The quotes regarding women dressing nicely (1 Peter 3:3, 1 Timothy 2:9) are also not read the way I do; following the teachings of Christ is a better adornment than physical ones. There is also some stuff I can;t remember perfectly about being distinct from several cults at the time that had high priestesses that dressed seductively and did other generally inappropriate things.

Also, I believe the Bible was divinely inspired. God didn't manifest in Paul's cell and dictate what he should write; and so on.

I hope that answers your question.

Why did God choose Paul to manifest to if he knew his words would be distorted in what is ultimately a very problematic manner?

[Arx]

There are a few options there. Maybe because Paul was one of the few people in a position to write a lot, in a time where literacy wasn't actually that common. Maybe because Paul was one of the few people with enough of an inclination to fanaticism to go out and preach. Maybe because He knew Paul would go to jail, thus indicating the strength of Paul's belief to others and encouraging them.

I mean, why did God choose me to be having this debate with you? I'm a slightly autistic sixteen year old, there must be plenty of people out there with smoother tongues than me that could sway you in a few posts.

[smeeprocket]

There are a few options there. Maybe because Paul was one of the few people in a position to write a lot, in a time where literacy wasn't actually that common. Maybe because Paul was one of the few people with enough of an inclination to fanaticism to go out and preach. Maybe because He knew Paul would go to jail, thus indicating the strength of Paul's belief to others and encouraging them.

I mean, why did God choose me to be having this debate with you? I'm a slightly autistic sixteen year old, there must be plenty of people out there with smoother tongues than me that could sway you in a few posts.

Do you believe God chose you for this purpose? I'm not sure he would be involved with this particular discussion, or things like football wins. (I'm not being demeaning, I'm wondering how much involvement you feel God has in day to day affairs.)

[Arx]

Why shouldn't God be involved in everything? If I believed in a God who wasn't involved in anything I was involved in, I'm not sure I would carry on believing in them.

It's impossible to rule anything out. It is worth noting that I am, after all, in this discussion.