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Author Topic: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?  (Read 5508 times)

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2014, 10:28:29 am »

That sounds like a good fix, as well as the healing fix.

Toady should really heed these raws changes, it would be very quick for him to change them.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2014, 10:36:13 am »

Alternatively, he could replace the enraged/combat trance system with an adrenaline system that increases as combat grows more intense, basically doing the same thing that enraged does but more gradual.  So instead of becoming completely immune to pain for a few rounds at random periods, a dwarf in combat will always have more pain tolerance (as well as increased strength, agility, and focus) than one who is not in combat.

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2014, 05:31:07 pm »

Alternatively, he could replace the enraged/combat trance system with an adrenaline system that increases as combat grows more intense, basically doing the same thing that enraged does but more gradual.  So instead of becoming completely immune to pain for a few rounds at random periods, a dwarf in combat will always have more pain tolerance (as well as increased strength, agility, and focus) than one who is not in combat.

Adrenaline would be a good mechanic to add, but dwarves should really not faint from a broken toe anyway. Severe pain and limping, yes, fainting on the cavern floor, no. Pain receptors in small bones in extremities must be reduced.
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CaptainLambcake

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2014, 08:09:56 pm »

atleast you get sieges.  3 years and not a single goblin except the werehamster.
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Aslandus

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 09:13:54 pm »

With the newer world simulation mechanics goblins have to actually send an army, so it is entirely possible that they lost too much population to keep increasing the siege numbers...

I will say on the subject of threats that dwarves do seem a bit overpowered, I can accept that steel and masterwork stuff are only for dwarves because they are the only ones with metalworking magic or whatever, but it shouldn't make them completely unstoppable.

Goblins should probably be focusing on sending better soldiers rather than more, after all if the world is being simulated they would surely have at least a dozen legendary warriors from all their raids at any given time that they could send to attack a problematic fortress rather than sending 50 yahoos they press ganged out of their troll farms and gave crossbows...

StagnantSoul

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2014, 09:16:28 pm »

Well, I just genned a world where 60% of the world is covered in dark fortresses. Still, no goblin sieges until year 13.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2014, 05:53:08 am »

With the newer world simulation mechanics goblins have to actually send an army, so it is entirely possible that they lost too much population to keep increasing the siege numbers...

I will say on the subject of threats that dwarves do seem a bit overpowered, I can accept that steel and masterwork stuff are only for dwarves because they are the only ones with metalworking magic or whatever, but it shouldn't make them completely unstoppable.

Goblins should probably be focusing on sending better soldiers rather than more, after all if the world is being simulated they would surely have at least a dozen legendary warriors from all their raids at any given time that they could send to attack a problematic fortress rather than sending 50 yahoos they press ganged out of their troll farms and gave crossbows...

Steel is not magical and should be available for everyone. Adamantine, by contrast, can be dwarves only - no one else is stupid enough to mine it.
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utunnels

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2014, 06:49:34 am »

Well other races can capture their goods.
 :P
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Aslandus

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2014, 10:34:33 am »

With the newer world simulation mechanics goblins have to actually send an army, so it is entirely possible that they lost too much population to keep increasing the siege numbers...

I will say on the subject of threats that dwarves do seem a bit overpowered, I can accept that steel and masterwork stuff are only for dwarves because they are the only ones with metalworking magic or whatever, but it shouldn't make them completely unstoppable.

Goblins should probably be focusing on sending better soldiers rather than more, after all if the world is being simulated they would surely have at least a dozen legendary warriors from all their raids at any given time that they could send to attack a problematic fortress rather than sending 50 yahoos they press ganged out of their troll farms and gave crossbows...

Steel is not magical and should be available for everyone. Adamantine, by contrast, can be dwarves only - no one else is stupid enough to mine it.
Until modern metalworking technology (such as the Bessemer process) steel was pretty rare and expensive, since Dwarf fortress is more of a medieval-era tech level there is a certain amount of "magic" that goes into making it (granted, even back then they "could" make it with sufficient time and resources, but it was so prohibitively difficult for only a marginal improvement in equipment that it wasn't worthwhile, it should really not be that huge a difference over iron).

Well other races can capture their goods.
 :P

This is a better explanation, they can't make it, but they find it and give it to their best soldiers...

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2014, 02:09:33 pm »

The Vikings used high quality crucible steel to make their swords in the mediaeval period, and it showed a massive improvement over iron. Even the ancient Romans and Chinese used steel swords. Everyone else across Eurasia did the same by the middle ages. No respectable, rich knight would go into battle with an iron sword. Swords were expensive because of the difficulty of steel working, but every warrior who could afford good steel equipment got it, because it made a big improvement!

Unsurprisingly, no magic was involved.

Read more about steel working here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#History_of_steelmaking
You may be surprised - even humans can do it! Without the Bessemer process! And it does make a difference!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 05:31:04 pm by Urist Uristurister »
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Aslandus

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2014, 04:05:10 pm »

I don't know, this wiki says it existed but not that it was widely used, in fact it says:

"Before the introduction of the Bessemer process and other modern production techniques, steel was expensive and was only used where no cheaper alternative existed, particularly for the cutting edge of knives, razors, swords, and other items where a hard, sharp edge was needed. It was also used for springs, including those used in clocks and watches.[39]

With the advent of speedier and thriftier production methods, steel has become easier to obtain and much cheaper. It has replaced wrought iron for a multitude of purposes. However, the availability of plastics in the latter part of the 20th century allowed these materials to replace steel in some applications due to their lower fabrication cost and weight.[65] Carbon fiber is replacing steel in some cost insensitive applications such as aircraft, sports equipment and high end automobiles."
-so it was used in cutting edges when they couldn't find anything else to do the job?

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather leave it here rather than have another two page argument with you like in that thread about army movement...

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2014, 05:28:57 pm »

That article is written a little poorly, I'm sorry about using it as a source. What it meant was that steel was not the best choice material except for those items which needed a hard, sharp edge - as in, weapons and tools - and for springs. For these, it was very good. Look up most period weapons and tools and you will see that they were steel. Armour was also steel by the late middle ages because of its greater strength. For everyday items like plates, steel was not the first choice.

I am fine with a 2 page argument if I refrain from any excessive rudeness.
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Headless

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2014, 07:43:23 pm »

For everyday items like plates, steel was not the first choice.

Pewter!  Pewter everything!
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Aslandus

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2014, 08:33:17 pm »

That article is written a little poorly, I'm sorry about using it as a source. What it meant was that steel was not the best choice material except for those items which needed a hard, sharp edge - as in, weapons and tools - and for springs. For these, it was very good. Look up most period weapons and tools and you will see that they were steel. Armour was also steel by the late middle ages because of its greater strength. For everyday items like plates, steel was not the first choice.

I am fine with a 2 page argument if I refrain from any excessive rudeness.
Fair enough, steel certainly would hold an edge over other metals (not sure if that's a pun or just a statement). Humans probably should at least have steel weapons, but I still think dwarves would still be the only ones with metalworking skill to make full steel armor and masterworks (particularly outfitting entire squads in the stuff) since it would still be fairly expensive for races that don't bleed iron and breathe coal dust... Other races should have their elites outfitted in the best equipment they can muster, whatever that may be.

Also, I will try to avoid rudeness as well.

Headless

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Re: Is the goblin civ getting weaker?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2014, 10:25:22 pm »

So goblins are led by demons right at the civilization level atleast,  Or so I have read on here some where.

Deamons should have access to candy.  Goblin champions should have candy gear.
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