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[~Neri]

Depends I think.

It could gain the incompatible mana it can't use, or it could just not work. Up to GM.

[Empiricist]

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction worlds may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Could use manacrystals.

Why only crystals? What's so special about crystals anyway? "Items" would be less restrictive.

Depends I think.

It could gain the incompatible mana it can't use, or it could just not work. Up to GM.

Yeah, or using that incompatible mana could cause !!FUN!! results to the user and his surroundings. Depends.

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction world may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

Nope, that's not what I mean. A plasma gun may not function in the terms of modern science, but the concept of a plasma gun implies that it is possible with sufficiently advanced science - that it doesn't break the laws of physics, functioning on the principles we know to exist, just utilizing them in some complex way. What that would be is left unanswered because if we knew how, we would have built one already.

[Empiricist]

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction world may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

Nope, that's not what I mean. A plasma gun may not function in the terms of modern science, but the concept of a plasma gun implies that it is possible with sufficiently advanced science - that it doesn't break the laws of physics, functioning on the principles we know to exist, just utilizing them in some complex way. What that would be is left unanswered because if we knew how, we would have built one already.

But then wouldn't that argument also cover certain types of magic such as psionics, quantum mechanical manipulation, gauge boson manipulation and the like?

[Avis-Mergulus]

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction world may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

Nope, that's not what I mean. A plasma gun may not function in the terms of modern science, but the concept of a plasma gun implies that it is possible with sufficiently advanced science - that it doesn't break the laws of physics, functioning on the principles we know to exist, just utilizing them in some complex way. What that would be is left unanswered because if we knew how, we would have built one already.

But then wouldn't that argument also cover certain types of magic such as psionics, quantum mechanical manipulation, gauge boson manipulation and the like?

It would cover psionics if we could define what the heck psionics are. Apparently for now, the best definition is "nonmagic magic powered by metabolism or something". Quantum mechanical manipulation presumably requires a device like the amps in ER, and the device presumably has a charge. I don't know what gauge boson manipulation is, but I presume the same applies.

[WillowLuman]

Psionics is soft sci-fi, (and sometimes straight-up magic by another name) since it often operates on early 20th-century pseudo-science or the addition of other natural forces (a "psychic field" to go along with gravitational, magnetic, and nuclear ones.)

[Empiricist]

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction world may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

Nope, that's not what I mean. A plasma gun may not function in the terms of modern science, but the concept of a plasma gun implies that it is possible with sufficiently advanced science - that it doesn't break the laws of physics, functioning on the principles we know to exist, just utilizing them in some complex way. What that would be is left unanswered because if we knew how, we would have built one already.

But then wouldn't that argument also cover certain types of magic such as psionics, quantum mechanical manipulation, gauge boson manipulation and the like?

It would cover psionics if we could define what the heck psionics are. Apparently for now, the best definition is "nonmagic magic powered by metabolism or something". Quantum mechanical manipulation presumably requires a device like the amps in ER, and the device presumably has a charge. I don't know what gauge boson manipulation is, but I presume the same applies.

Yeah, but would they work as well? I mean, it would effectively be magic by a different name with about equal amounts of justification and far less limitations. Also, ER amps are charged by the user's brain, which means that it effectively has infinite usage.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Psionics is soft sci-fi, (and sometimes straight-up magic by another name) since it often operates on early 20th-century pseudo-science or the addition of other natural forces (a "psychic field" to go along with gravitational, magnetic, and nuclear ones.)

Then whether psionics are functional in a certain universe is dependent on whether that universe has a "psychic field", which is not readily evident like the other three (which the aforementioned plasma gun uses to function).

The problem is that in my experience "psionics" means "whatever I can make up to use magic in your anti-magic field". It's a bit of a weasely term which can mean several very different things.

Finally why are magical things treated this way when in other universes while a plasma gun can be taken nearly anywhere and used nearly anywhere and also (if you bring a generator)have its "charges" replenished nearly anywhere?

Because a plasma gun functions using basic, for lack of a better definition, real-world physics, which are assumed to be present in most worlds (Admit it. Our players are mostly going to be human/generally humanoid and made of matter, right?)

Not necessarily, since though a soft science-fiction world may allow it, it would run into certain, crippling issues in more realistic worlds.

Nope, that's not what I mean. A plasma gun may not function in the terms of modern science, but the concept of a plasma gun implies that it is possible with sufficiently advanced science - that it doesn't break the laws of physics, functioning on the principles we know to exist, just utilizing them in some complex way. What that would be is left unanswered because if we knew how, we would have built one already.

But then wouldn't that argument also cover certain types of magic such as psionics, quantum mechanical manipulation, gauge boson manipulation and the like?

It would cover psionics if we could define what the heck psionics are. Apparently for now, the best definition is "nonmagic magic powered by metabolism or something". Quantum mechanical manipulation presumably requires a device like the amps in ER, and the device presumably has a charge. I don't know what gauge boson manipulation is, but I presume the same applies.

Yeah, but would they work as well? I mean, it would effectively be magic by a different name with about equal amounts of justification and far less limitations. Also, ER amps are charged by the user's brain, which means that it effectively has infinite usage.

Well...yeah. You're right about the amps thing, that would be a bit unbalanced. Maybe we can implement a rule that says amp-like devices must have an external power source or exhaust the user physically? That would be restrictive, of course, but I'm a bit stuck here.

[Playergamer]

Why don't we just give GMs fiat over all this?

[Avis-Mergulus]

Why don't we just give GMs fiat over all this?

Maybe that would be easier. Still, possible complications later on.

[Empiricist]

My opinion is that anything that uses soft-science, including ones that would be require some kind of unspecified scientific development should face the same issues as magic. That is, they may not work in other worlds.

So something like a gauss rifle would work in all worlds since it works on hard-science, the main thing really preventing their development in real-life would be a matter of capacitors and power supply. Comparatively, a plasma rifle would not as it would require either some sort of hypothetical device that prevents explosions from occurring, or something that allows the bolt to generate a magnetic field that keeps it compressed from all directions (it is theoretically possible to compress it from certain directions, but that would make it explode in other directions).

[Avis-Mergulus]

My opinion is that anything that uses soft-science, including ones that would be require some kind of unspecified scientific development should face the same issues as magic. That is, they may not work in other worlds.

So something like a gauss rifle would work in all worlds since it works on hard-science, the main thing really preventing their development in real-life would be a matter of capacitors and power supply. Comparatively, a plasma rifle would not as it would require either some sort of hypothetical device that prevents explosions from occurring, or something that allows the bolt to generate a magnetic field that keeps it compressed from all directions (it is theoretically possible to compress it from certain directions, but that would make it explode in other directions).

There's an inherent assumption here is that such a device is basically impossible, while getting capacitors powerful enough for a man-portable railgun is not. Which is probably right, but still questionable.
This approach leaves drawing the line between "soft science" and "hard science" to GM fiat. Which is not all bad, maybe.

[WillowLuman]

Soft sci-fi should not be treated as outright magic unless it's running on principles that have actually been debunked (or use highly theoretical physics as a handwave, like a lot of quantum things). Like, plasma guns are physically possible (it doesn't need to fire a shaped bolt of plasma, it just needs to propel plasma at speed and distance. Most likely with rails/coils, since plasma is easily directed by magnetic fields) but radiation making things bigger and meaner (a la Fallout) is debunked.

[Empiricist]

The issue with plasma weapons is, if pressure is high, you get an explosion. Otherwise, you just get a jet, which is basically just a flamethrower except less efficient and without the benefits of coating people in burning chemicals. It simply requires too many theoretical factors.

[Avis-Mergulus]

The issue with plasma weapons is, if pressure is high, you get an explosion. Otherwise, you just get a jet, which is basically just a flamethrower except less efficient and without the benefits of coating people in burning chemicals. It simply requires too many theoretical factors.

What if it actually propels some sort of thin-mesh magnetic containment unit with plasma inside at the target? A GM could word stuff like that differently.