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[Dwarfeon]

Pretty nooby question here, but i have been wondering what are the most important factors to consider in order to make a fortress self-sustainable as soon as its possible, and the most efficient (read:Not as dwarven but faster than average) layout for the first z levels of the fortress.
In a more !!science!! topic, what is the best way to selectively kill elves without them starting a war with me?

[karhell]

I'd say the most important self-sustainability factor is deciding where to embark.
For a beginner fortress, you'll probably want a wooded area with fresh water (in case of injuries, essentially), and soil to set up farming without bothering with irrigation. Metals are a nice plus, but are also easily obtainable through trade/invasions.

Once on site, set up farming/booze production as soon as you can, then move on to industry and a meeting area. Rooms can come after that. The rest comes pretty much as needed (but keep in mind that you'll need space for storage, a hospital, and a graveyard).

At least, that's my approach. I strongly suspect there are as many possible answers as there are bay12ers (same goes for efficient layouts).

As for the elves... I'll let others answer. Never really cared much for the long-eared buggers

[Larix]

In a more !!science!! topic, what is the best way to selectively kill elves without them starting a war with me?

Damn youngsters - in my day, we complained when we killed elves and their civ _didn't_ go to war. Put me right off elf-slaughtering, that (stupid pacifists, taking all the fun out of battle by refusing to fight back).

[Foxite]

I once found myself creating a fort that was, according to the quickstart guide on the wiki, completely self-sustaining within 30 real minutes of gameplay, although I had no military I was ready to start it up. I only had one migrant wave before I reached the end of the guide...

But to do that requires not only a fast PC but also a lot of knowledge about DF gameplay mechanics and possibly the knowledge to make non-gamebreaking use of bugs. Such as quantum stockpiling for easy and fast storage, or routinely atom smashing all excess rocks to improve FPS. There is also a whole article on the wiki describing many methods to improve your FPS. The FPS doesn't matter if you are measuring the time spent in in-game seasons, or months. But it certainly will help overall, as the time needed to manage everything as a human slightly increases as FPS gets lower. My PC doesn't have a lot of FPS so the "blitzkrieg" fort mentioned above would probably have reached self-sustainingness twice as fast when I had a custom gamer PC. (My PC dates back to 2000 and was the bare minimum needed to run Windows XP even back then, and it hasn't been upgraded since, so I guess you could know what kind of FPS I have.)

As for the !!SCIENCE!! question, I usually have the militia live-train on them and their animals, but the fastest(and most !!FUN!!) way to do it is obviously to have an indoor trade depot and drop the ceiling on them. But if you do not want to start a war then it is the best to kill them all, as letting survivors escape appears to have a more detrimental effect on your diplomatic relationship with the elves than simply annihilating them all and letting no living creature escape. Also, for them to go to war with your civ takes many many years of seizing every item they have and letting them all escape, and they will more likely start sending ambushes followed by sieges long before they do that.

For reference:

• Killing some and letting at least one elf escape hurts quite a bit,
• Siezing itemshurts it badly, the severity increasing with the total value of the items siezed,
• Attempting to sell them wooden items hurts it a lot, albeit less than siezing everything would, but they are more likely to start a war when you do this because they witnessed the killing of plants which they consider to be unthinkable.

Doing any of the above will have no effect if you let nobody escape, although it will still hurt the relations quite a bit. But less than killing them and letting at least one elf escape.

[smeeprocket]

I always make digging a cistern and getting fresh water into a well priority.

I don't know if that is essential, but since injured dwarves will only take water and it cleans wounds, I consider it important. At some point you might be turtling up with no direction safe to go and you'll need that fresh supply of water.

[Absentia]

Being self-sustaining is easy, since the only things dwarfs actually consume are food, booze, and clothing. And clothing takes years to wear out, so there's no need to work on it right away. Just embark with a couple of max-skill growers and some seeds (plump helmet and pig tail are most important), build a few 3x3 farm plots on a soil level, and stick a still and food stockpile nearby. Start growing and brewing plump helmets (make some rock pots at a craftsdwarf's to hold everything), and after a year or so switch some of your plots over to pig tails and start setting up a textile industry.

The only other things you really need are the bare necessities for dwarf happiness (bedrooms with beds, a dining room with chairs and tables) and some kind of defense.

For layout efficiency, I just pile related workshops and stockpiles as close to each other as possible. Furniture and food get stored on the z level below because those stockpiles get rather large.

[Naryar]

You need a few miners in your starting build, and more than one. I think 3 novice miners and 3 picks is just fine though i tend to embark with a proficient miner.

Efficient and fastest way... Well, just build your fort on a few z-levels, rooms in stone, stockpiles/farming in soil.

Up/down stairs are your friend.

In a more !!science!! topic, what is the best way to selectively kill elves without them starting a war with me?

The best way to kill elves is starting a war with them. If you kill caravan elves, they'll start a war with you.

Do the math.

Also, war is fun !

[Aslandus]

Don't forget to wall in your area, or at least set it into a mountainside so it's easy to defend, or an early siege could end you.

Gathering is a good way to get quick food when you are starting, just enable the plant gathering labor (farming-plant gathering) on a dwarf and designate an area to be gathered (d-p). You can use what you get to start above ground farm plots, which may yield more valuable crops than underground crops...

[vjmdhzgr]

Going to war with elves isn't very dangerous once you get a military with three dwarves with base quality copper equipment, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Pirate Santa]

First priority is getting everything inside, especially if you're in a !!FUN!! biome.

From here I find it tends to get bit hectic, as I try to get a lot of things done at once:
*Build farms for food and booze
*Dig a cistern and build a well
*Set up basic workshops and start them operating, carpenter for beds(& other furniture), mason for well blocks(& other furniture), mechanic for mechanisms, still for booze, fishery/butcher if you have fishers or hunters
*Use mechanisms to set up a drawbridge so I can seal the fortress in an emergency

Once that's done I try to get someone churning out trade goods ASAP so I can trade for anything we're short on, and start digging proper bedrooms, a dining hall, stockpiles, etc.

With this approach I find I can have the fort sustaining itself by the end of the first year in most cases, in second year I start looking at setting up forges, militia, hospital & other workshops.

[Dwarfeon]

Thanks everyone for the replies!
-As for the !!science!! thing, i have a different thing planned for elves than war.(AKA giant lava cannon/funneling refuse into their water supplies/making "accidental" lava drops on their forest etc-ill try to get it working enough for some forum display of elven-destroying methods)-

[Naryar]

Here's what I make to create a fort, in order. This in a biome who is not particularly dangerous.

-Start digging; meanwhile create a small woodworking industry
-Continue digging, start putting your stuff inside, build beds.
-Continue digging, place beds (dormitory)
-Set up a basic food industry (still, one 3x3 farm plot, a food stockpile)
-Continue digging, create masonry and stonecrafting industries

Then your fort can be considered started (you should have spent three or four months on that) You have then to do the following:
-Build basic, passive defenses (bridge + lever tends to work)
-Dig rooms and make bedrooms. Expect a migrant wave soon.
-Set up a dining room for your dwarves
-Dig, make stockpiles.

Now you have a real fort (8 months or so, or 1 year). The following is simple:
-Start other industries (i tend to start metalworking first)
-Start military program
-Moar rooms, moar stockpiles
-Advanced defenses (moat, traps, walls)
-Prepare for the third migrant wave.
-Advanced defenses (moat, wall, etc)

[Urist Tilaturist]

Don't worry about elves. If you want to kill them, just accept the war and wipe out their wooden-armoured "armies" when they arrive. A few dwarves with bronze gear can rout any feasible number of them. Personally I never actually kill elves since they make good trading partners and they never seem to complain about wood cutting even when we do it in front of their caravan.

[smeeprocket]

I never go to war with elves because buying clothes from them saves me time and they have cool animals to sell.

Also, I like to hedge my bets and have food available as often during the year as possible. I only wish they sold booze, too.

[Urist Tilaturist]

I never go to war with elves because buying clothes from them saves me time and they have cool animals to sell.

Also, I like to hedge my bets and have food available as often during the year as possible. I only wish they sold booze, too.

They do, in my experience, or at least the fruit to make it.