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[Ancalagon_TB]

Hello

So I've now had two sieges and I'm anticipating a third.  Part of my defences is a line of cage traps - it's not enough to deal with an army, but it blunts the attack a bit and leaves me with captives.

I have questions.

First, obviously, the sieges can be a source of equipment and resources.  Goblins sometimes wear armor and carry weapons that are decent (say, an iron helm) and others that are not so great (say, copper mail) can be melted down.  However, these weapons and armor often have no quality modifiers.  Should I just melt everything down?  And what about their clothing?  Will dwarves wear that stuff?  Should I keep them to clothe my dwarves, dump it, sell it?

Second, I have been moving the cages in an arena, link to a lever, put a squad in there, lock the door, pull the leaver and watch a massacre ensue.  I am *not* stripping the captives before the fight so that it is more challenging for the dwarves.  Is this the best way to operate?  It feels a bit... simplistic.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

Well, if you want to train your dwarves, simply letting them spar in a room full of training spears (make sure you don't have any elven spears in there, they'll kill your dwarves) set up so they'll continuously move up and down. That'll make your militia a competent goblin-slaying force in no time.

On the other hand, if that seems too exploity for you, I think what you are already doing so is more or less the normal practice, although most do remove their weapons, armor, etc. first.

[Naryar]

Should I just melt everything down?  And what about their clothing?  Will dwarves wear that stuff?  Should I keep them to clothe my dwarves, dump it, sell it?

Yes, yes, and if you want the greatest monetary return you should either sell it or keep it to clothe your dwarves.

The actual armor tends to be very poor however compared to dwarven armor, so melt it or sell it. Goblin clothes are a good source of clothes for your fort, if you're like me and don't bother with a clothing industry.

Second, I have been moving the cages in an arena, link to a lever, put a squad in there, lock the door, pull the leaver and watch a massacre ensue.  I am *not* stripping the captives before the fight so that it is more challenging for the dwarves.  Is this the best way to operate?  It feels a bit... simplistic.

Yes, it is. Alternatively you can try to keep them goblins alive for re-usable training. Even train the goblins in weapon skills for extra difficulty.

You can also strip both dwarves and goblins from their weapons. It still raises skill and it generally makes combat less lethal.

there : http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Live_training#Beating_on_Enemy_Prisoners_.28aka_Away_with_thee.2C_accursed_Geneva_Convention.21.29

[Reelya]

Instead of the levers, try building a 3x3 animal stockpile around a pit with a hatch cover. set this stockpile to only accept goblins, and take from your main prison stockpile. Dwarves will automatically keep this full of up to 8 goblins. Order civilians to pit the goblins as needed, saving you the time and effort wiring up levers. I don't think they escape, but if you think there's a risk, have a second squad set for sparring on the top pit level.

For using them for training you want to maximize the time taken to kill the goblins but at minimal risk to your dwarves. I suggest removing only the goblin's weapon, and giving your guys training weapons for the fight. This will prolong the fight but at very low risk of critical injury.

As Dwarf4Explosives said, you can use a danger room to automate training, and this is more effective than the goblin training system. One suggestion would be to train marksdwarves using bone bolts with the goblins instead, because I don't think archery can't be trained properly in a danger room.

[Zac]

Dwarves can use anything from the goblins, especially if it's a sock. I dont like to see them wear goblins' rags personally, but otherwise it's fine.

For the same reason I prefer to melt the goblinite and craft my own gear, and if I'm able to defeat the greenskins it's generaly because I already have good armors and weapons anyways. I only keep some special items like silver whips or iron daggers wich are good foreign weapons.

[vjmdhzgr]

I suggest removing only the goblin's weapon, and giving your guys training weapons for the fight. This will prolong the fight but at very low risk of critical injury.

When taking items from prisoners you can only order your dwarves to take everything or nothing. It is possible to order them to take stuff then as soon as you see the weapon be taken stop the order, but that would require a lot of micromanagement for any large amount of goblins and would be inconsistent.

[Zac]

For using them for training you want to maximize the time taken to kill the goblins but at minimal risk to your dwarves. I suggest removing only the goblin's weapon, and giving your guys training weapons for the fight. This will prolong the fight but at very low risk of critical injury.

The risk is that they will eventually get attached to their training weapon if they kill too much gobbos with it, no ? And then they will refuse to use any other weapon.

[PillarsOfSalt]

The risk is that they will eventually get attached to their training weapon if they kill too much gobbos with it, no ? And then they will refuse to use any other weapon.

I'm pretty sure you can assign them a specific weapon and they'll switch, even if they just adore their training sword. The only downside is they get a bad thought.

(Correct me if I'm wrong)

P.S. Still playing .34

[Zac]

My experience of dwarves being attached to their weapons and giving them names is also from .34 and I never managed to make them upgrade to a better weapon once they felt in love of their copper shortsword

[Magistrum]

Yes, assigning a specific weapon makes them get a bad thought but they will drop their beloved blowgun.

[Bigheaded]

never really bothered with training on goblins. Although i do admit having 20 pages of them randomly stabbing them in the head with a wooden spear is quite funny and generally rather effective.
But seeing that given 6 months in a squad with 2 members will be making them spar very regularly, i don't find it a massive issue.
Even in squads of 10, change change the orders so that they train in "a minimum of a pair", there's usually 1-2 sets sparring 100% of the time in a full group.


For goblinite, it depends, if you're fussy then yes, you should melt it all down, seeing you really need steel anyway.  Get a good amount of haulers so that they have slightly better weaponsmith/armorsmith than anything else (such as crafting) and hope you get an artifact which causes them to go legendary, then you've got an easy time getting some very high quality steel. Melt anything which isn't good enough.

[Aslandus]

Melting equipment vs keeping it depends on what you need:
-if it's the first year and just barely beat the first goblin siege with the two miners you brought on embark by sheer luck, you may want to keep the equipment to give to a hastily formed militia before the next attack comes...
-if you're established and have already equipped most of your army, you can afford to be choosier with your stuff, melting down most of the armor for metal and alloys and only keeping the best loot that you can't normally make intact...

[Ancalagon_TB]

I think using the goblins for archery practice may be the most optimal use.  I'm thinking I should keep a small stockpile of bolts nearby too.  Wonder if I should make that wooden bolts...

[utunnels]

Maybe a trapped FB is a better choice. Or maybe you should keep their armors on, just in case you make a headshot.

[Aslandus]

Maybe a trapped FB is a better choice. Or maybe you should keep their armors on, just in case you make a headshot.

Just make sure they're actually trapped, nothing ruins a fortress like having your POWs running amok in your dining hall...

If you're wondering why I keep my arena in my dining hall, I just like my dwarves to watch the fights...