Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[XivilaiAnaxes]

I'm running a succubus fort and decided I wanted to stick bebiliths at all the cavern entrances.

But they don't fight? If they see so much as a giant rat the pair of spiders just spray webs and run away into the various rock mines I have attached to the staircase.

Am I doing something wrong or are the spiders just completely useless in battle? Is there any way to fix that?

[slay_mithos]

[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOSTUN][NOEMOTION][NONAUSEA][NOFEAR]

Those should mean that it never runs away, and it even has [LIKES_FIGHTING].

I don't know what's wrong, but in theory they should fight to death.

If they are trainable, you might want to train them as war beasts, maybe it could help.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOSTUN][NOEMOTION][NONAUSEA][NOFEAR]

Those should mean that it never runs away, and it even has [LIKES_FIGHTING].

I don't know what's wrong, but in theory they should fight to death.

If they are trainable, you might want to train them as war beasts, maybe it could help.

Not only are they not war trainable, but shortly after being tamed they literally disappear off the animal screen (Might have something to do with being an "underworld" creature).

I have no clue why after pasturing the massive underground demon murder spiders, they'll spray pray and run away from almost the entire caverns population while the random fortress orthii will try fight everything to the death.

[Meph]

Its because they are not war-trained. Adding TRAINABLE_WAR will fix that.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Its because they are not war-trained. Adding TRAINABLE_WAR will fix that.

Ah, ok, that makes sense.

I don't suppose you have a solution for the bebilliths disappearing from the animal list? Orthii cauchemars and all that stuff appear on the list, but shortly after the bebilliths are trained (Sometimes even before that) they just drop off the list. My trained ones keep getting retrained, but I couldn't war train them even if I added the tag to their RAW.

[Meph]

No, sorry. I'm not entirely sure how Boltgun summons those. I would assume spawnunit. Are the bebiliths reappearing when you save/load the game?

[Boltgun]

Perhaps it's because the Bebilith have the CAN_LEARN tags. Removing it should fix issues.

For some technobabble :
Creatures are called using spawnunit plus a fix to shoehorn them into the animal list. This is why you see them in the first place.

But the CAN_LEARN tag dictactes half of the intelligent creatures behaviour (the other half being CAN_SPEAK) and I guess that DF assumes that we do not want this creature in the animal stock. I think it safe to say that we do not need this tag for any beast.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Gonna try it out now, just gotta find the bebillith RAW.

Removed CAN_LEARN and replaced it with WAR_TRAINABLE, older bebs dont appear in screen, gonna test with a newly summoned one... if I can get some silk that wasn't used up in the great lamellar leather crusade.

No dice - They drop off the animal menu even without CAN_LEARN right after you save/reload the game.

I personally suspect it has to do with them being underworld creatures (If they forget their training they don't go wild, they just become labeled "underworld" in the unit menu).

[Boltgun]

Ah so there must be another wildcard with underworld creatures (aka creatures with a cavern layer of 5), I'll need to make some more tests then.

[Meph]

Depth shouldnt have any affect on the behaviour.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Update - Test bebilith now trained as a War Bebilith (I assigned it to be war trained while I was assigning it a trainer) but the training happened long after it was removed from the animal list.

AFTER war training it seemed to be put right back onto the list. Unsure if it will stay or if it's just temporary.

If the bebiliths are assigned trainers before they take themselves off the list, the trainers will automatically do their various trainings/retrainings. If removed before being assigned anything, they'll just stay friendly listed as "tame" under the unit menu and won't rebel and kill everyone.

Boltgun, you mentioned a way to force creatures onto the animal list, is it possible to just use that to force the untrained bebiliths back onto the list temporarily, so that they can be assigned trainers before they take themselves off again?

[Boltgun]

I can use a script to insert the bebiliths at a regular interval but such script will also reduce FPS. It would be more convenient to find out how DF decide that this creature shouldn't be in the list.

[Meph]

I can use a script to insert the bebiliths at a regular interval but such script will also reduce FPS. It would be more convenient to find out how DF decide that this creature shouldn't be in the list.

Not sure if it would be worth it atm. Spawnunit still doesnt exist for the new dfhack/df version, so any changes might now might be void later.

[Boltgun]

Not sure if it would be worth it atm. Spawnunit still doesnt exist for the new dfhack/df version, so any changes might now might be void later.

That's why I am stopping adding features for now. I started looking at spawnunit in order to make it a library like makeown. We should be able to spawn creatures and modify them further without relying on fovcommand hacks.

[Meph]

Expwnent mentioned that he wanted to start working on a functional spawnunit for the new version, and Roses posted plans about an extended version (for custom invaders with gear etc) but he is rather swamped with projects.