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[Volfgarix]

[...] doesn't belong here. You wouldn't post it in other mod threads.

Because other mods actually do something interesting and makes sense.

[Putnam]

[...] doesn't belong here. You wouldn't post it in other mod threads.

Because other mods actually do something interesting and makes sense.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145849.0

[Meph]

listen to Meph he is very used to negative feedback

from me even

especially from me even

And I wouldnt have it any other way. 

[smeeprocket]

listen to Meph he is very used to negative feedback

from me even

especially from me even

lol

Some people like certain mods, other people like other mods.

My mod does not exist as bait, and the fact that it causes such a problematic response is not due to a problem with the mod, but with the attitude of people in general. That does not mean it should not exist.

If you don't like the mod don't download it. If you have some criticism that would help me improve the mod, I really am receptive to that. But there is some hostility and a need to criticize the existence of the mod for the topic it covers, and I'm not okay with that. I don't want this thread to become a flame war. If you want to get a discussion going on transexuality in General Discussion, I'll participate (but it will probably go down in flames, either way.)

[Meph]

But how about criticism like this: "I think this mod is pointless, because it adds no further gameplay. There are no gender related game-mechanics or differences, all it does is change some descriptions, and make marriage/child-birth unnecessary opaque."

[smakemupagus]

But how about criticism like this: "I think this mod is pointless, because it adds no further gameplay. There are no gender related game-mechanics or differences, all it does is change some descriptions, and make marriage/child-birth unnecessary opaque."

The original post that smeeprocket was replying to, that now looks like a mild complaint about being pointless, wasn't originally so nice.  it was vulgar and personal before the author edited it.  I think, kudos to smeeprocket for staying pretty calm and directing the mean spirited flamewar stuff either away entirely, or at least down to general.

'Hai guys i made and ork civ which is like goblins only not because ork are like kewl a n stuff.'

[smeeprocket]

But how about criticism like this: "I think this mod is pointless, because it adds no further gameplay. There are no gender related game-mechanics or differences, all it does is change some descriptions, and make marriage/child-birth unnecessary opaque."

Well, my argument would be that there's a ton of mods that don't do anything useful -in that sense-. Like what is the purpose of extra plants, or extra races and species?

This just includes more genders, which I think is an excellent feature.

I would argue that it is limited, due to the very limited way in which I can change gender and alter it. But it's like everyone and their mother needs to stop in to comment on how pointless it is. I don't see a string of "why does this mod exist?" questions in other threads. I feel it's more a hostility to the concept itself than an actual complaint that it does nothing for the game.

I'm working on another mod that provides other fermented beverages, it will be equally unnecessary and useless, but I would bet good money it won't get these comments.

[Toady One]

I removed a few posts up there.  This topic and the related (locked) suggestion received pointless hostile posts, it continues to be an issue, and I'm just going to start handing out mutes if people can't exercise self control.

[Meph]

But how about criticism like this: "I think this mod is pointless, because it adds no further gameplay. There are no gender related game-mechanics or differences, all it does is change some descriptions, and make marriage/child-birth unnecessary opaque."

Well, my argument would be that there's a ton of mods that don't do anything useful -in that sense-. Like what is the purpose of extra plants, or extra races and species?

This just includes more genders, which I think is an excellent feature.

I would argue that it is limited, due to the very limited way in which I can change gender and alter it. But it's like everyone and their mother needs to stop in to comment on how pointless it is. I don't see a string of "why does this mod exist?" questions in other threads. I feel it's more a hostility to the concept itself than an actual complaint that it does nothing for the game.

I'm working on another mod that provides other fermented beverages, it will be equally unnecessary and useless, but I would bet good money it won't get these comments.

Good answer.

[Toady One]

Jimexmore failed to read my warning a few posts above and has now caught a week.

[k33n]

Hrrrm. Censorship is the state or an equivalent body preventing you from (eg) putting on a play, making known your opinions, etc. It is not people saying "here don't be a dick", in much the same way that preventing someone from shouting "fire!" in a crowded theatre is not a mortal threat to free speech. Eliding McCarthyism with requests that people refrain from being dicks about stuff that patently has a serious effect on other humans with lives and feelings and all that good shit is, at the absolute most charitable level of interpretation, misguided.

Censorship is banning ideas, fiction, writing, etc, regardless of the source. No state needed.

I am using the term McCarthyism not to describe a left / right bias, but a raving denouncement of character or purging of those who violate imaginary moral ideology - ie, the moral crusade that is hitting video games hard at the present day.

And are we seriously suggesting that there can be /no/ moral upshot to virtual actions?

Yes. If you cannot separate reality from imaginary then you are either a child, mentally ill or teetering on the edge of mental illness. It is a harsh thing to say, but it is the truth. People who are that handicapped should stay away from video games.

[ptb_ptb]

I could argue about censorship here. I could search out and refer studies on real effects of virtual things. I could denounce, declaim or support my favorite political and/or religious beliefs.

I'm not going to, though, because this is a thread about a mod in the mod releases forum.

I will note that Smeeprocket is taking a break from Dwarf Fortress because she has been put off by off topic and inflammatory posts. That also means my personal succession fortress I was running with her is also suspended indefinitely. Thanks a lot. 

Anyway, I would suggest it might be best to (hopefully) temporarily lock this thread till she's back and has the enthusiasm for further developing her mod.

[k33n]

I could argue about censorship here. I could search out and refer studies on real effects of virtual things. I could denounce, declaim or support my favorite political and/or religious beliefs.

I'm not going to, though, because this is a thread about a mod in the mod releases forum.

I will note that Smeeprocket is taking a break from Dwarf Fortress because she has been put off by off topic and inflammatory posts. That also means my personal succession fortress I was running with her is also suspended indefinitely. Thanks a lot. 

Anyway, I would suggest it might be best to (hopefully) temporarily lock this thread till she's back and has the enthusiasm for further developing her mod.

Smeeprocket was the admitted queen of derailing so I assumed she would be okay with meta discussion - that I did not start - on her own thread.

[smeeprocket]

I could argue about censorship here. I could search out and refer studies on real effects of virtual things. I could denounce, declaim or support my favorite political and/or religious beliefs.

I'm not going to, though, because this is a thread about a mod in the mod releases forum.

I will note that Smeeprocket is taking a break from Dwarf Fortress because she has been put off by off topic and inflammatory posts. That also means my personal succession fortress I was running with her is also suspended indefinitely. Thanks a lot. 

Anyway, I would suggest it might be best to (hopefully) temporarily lock this thread till she's back and has the enthusiasm for further developing her mod.

Smeeprocket was the admitted queen of derailing so I assumed she would be okay with meta discussion - that I did not start - on her own thread.

I'm back now, hesitantly.

But yea, I'd prefer to keep the thread on track, mostly because the derails are going to be inflammatory and could just lead to the thread being locked.

I think this, btw, is usable for the newer versions, nothing in the raws changed that I can tell.

[Csponge]

AFAIK the only difference between male and female dwarves are the 'he' and 'she' tags. If you took those out in descriptions of 10 seperate dwarves you wouldn't be able to tell which where male or female.

Dwarves don't have transgender because it isn't an issue, because both sexes are in no way biologically different. Toady has not introduced their method of reproduction into the game, and the lore is definitely not clear on this bit. If anything the words he/she wife/husband are lost in translation from the dwarven language, and simply mean that there is one dwarf that carries the baby into battle, and another dwarf that watches that dwarfs back.

This is not to say that I am against modding transgender into the game, however I wouldn't personally use said mod.



"Urist feels privileged for being a male, pale of skin, heterosexual dwarf."