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[Illogical_Blox]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

Nah, what I was saying was that in a medieval society, most gays and transsexuals usually just... married the other gender and didn't act on their impulses on the belief that it was unnatural. The society and indeed the people had no concept of a non-straight person.

they did, and it was accepted in some circles. For the most part, it was just considered abhorrent. That doesn't mean that they weren't there.

Dwarves don't really follow European medieval conventions in that sense. They have no dogma condemning such things.

I feel that, as I mentioned with children, there are gender roles, such that I would assume there are small bit of gender identity. But part of it is also about being inclusive. Including people is always a good thing. Dwarves also have no prejudices towards different skin colors, so I don't think they would suppress transgenders and homosexuals.

a) I didn't know that, huh.
b) I NEVER said they didn't exist.
c) While the "not-following-conventions" thing is true... well, I've always considered them a somewhat conservative race. Of course, we don't know, as Toady One will never add this, but suppression seems like the sort of thing they would do.

they seem to have no problem with homosexuality, I don't know why they would have a problem with trans people. That's not written into their code.

I meant just in my perception of them, not ingame.

*Sigh* Why in the name of Christ do I bother? I knew that on as sensitive a topic as this any comment would be foolish.

[Putnam]

Mostly it's a problem with the fact that your perception is kinda irrelevant when we're talking about the game...

[smeeprocket]

I didn't feel like I was being defensive in that post. :?.

[Illogical_Blox]

I know Putnam, I just made the reference to try to make "b) I NEVER said they didn't exist" seem less rude.

Defensive, smeeprocket? Huh?

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

DF has some rudimentary gender roles, the mother takes care of the infant until after one year for example. The father won't pick the baby up if the mother dies and it is crawling around.

I thought it was whoever has the child holds the baby?

Somewhat related: I've tested and put into practice same-sex childbearing (male and female). The game seems to handle it very well, with the relationship screen saying "father" for both parents (for example, mother also works) and one parent taking care of the baby pretty elegantly.

And yeah, the separation of sex and gender would be good. It should probably wait until the family unit is more... considered. Right now it's "person who gives birth (regardless of sex) carries the baby around" (Yeah, I tested male childbirth. It works, as long as they're a female for the birth).

[Ogdibus]

I think the attributing conservatism comes from their portrayals by Tolkien and Gygax.  They were depicted as valuing family and tradition, and were sort of dour.  That matches the image that social conservatives have, but it doesn't mean that they share the same traditions or beliefs.  Their roots in mythology and religion depict something very different.  The dvergr have many stories that might remind you more of faeries, goblins, or cyclopes.

<_<

>_>

I guess I'm kind of late. :<

[smeeprocket]

DF has some rudimentary gender roles, the mother takes care of the infant until after one year for example. The father won't pick the baby up if the mother dies and it is crawling around.

I thought it was whoever has the child holds the baby?

Somewhat related: I've tested and put into practice same-sex childbearing (male and female). The game seems to handle it very well, with the relationship screen saying "father" for both parents (for example, mother also works) and one parent taking care of the baby pretty elegantly.

And yeah, the separation of sex and gender would be good. It should probably wait until the family unit is more... considered. Right now it's "person who gives birth (regardless of sex) carries the baby around" (Yeah, I tested male childbirth. It works, as long as they're a female for the birth).

well mothers generally give birth to the children. Or am I misunderstanding.

[k33n]

So a trans dwarf is technically a male who carries a child or a female who does not haha.

Mostly I am replying to you saying that actions towards virtual imaginary abstractions of people can have any concept of right and wrong attached to it.

Also, if a piece of fiction can seriously emotionally damage someone then they are not a functioning adult. And while yes, there are tasteless forms of fiction, McCarthyism and censorship are much more of an insult and danger to both the individual and society then any offensive imaginary content.

[Meph]

First time I heard the word McCarthyism, but I like it.

[Volfgarix]

Transgender stuff

Does it improve gameplay at all?

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Transgender stuff

Does it improve gameplay at all?

No, it's purely atmospheric. (I'm tired, that's not the right word.)

[Jdorf]

Also, if a piece of fiction can seriously emotionally damage someone then they are not a functioning adult. And while yes, there are tasteless forms of fiction, McCarthyism and censorship are much more of an insult and danger to both the individual and society then any offensive imaginary content.

Hrrrm. Censorship is the state or an equivalent body preventing you from (eg) putting on a play, making known your opinions, etc. It is not people saying "here don't be a dick", in much the same way that preventing someone from shouting "fire!" in a crowded theatre is not a mortal threat to free speech. Eliding McCarthyism (which, incidentally, was noticeable for going after folk who were already not the 'ideal' cishet 2.4 kids white family wi a white picket fence, so, y'know) with requests that people refrain from being dicks about stuff that patently has a serious effect on other humans with lives and feelings and all that good shit is, at the absolute most charitable level of interpretation, misguided.

And are we seriously suggesting that there can be /no/ moral upshot to virtual actions? Patently it's not equivalent to kill a videogame character and a real-life person, but it seems exceptionally unlikely that anyone would be happy with saying "well yeah I like to (eg) kill all and only people of colour in GTA". Whatever your take on how we should respond to what might be called 'bad thoughts' versus 'bad acts', unless you want to deny that bad thoughts can even exist, you're committed to saying that their direct or first-order subject can be virtual ageents.

Anyway: good onya, mod-maker and folk chipping in with helpful advice.

[smeeprocket]

Me expressing disapproval of people doing awful things in a fictional setting is not censorship.

That's just entitled and silly. You don't get free reign to do what you please without anyone else being allowed to speak out.

TBH his whole statement was just intentionally obtuse and an attempt to trivialize a real issue.

Anyway, discussion about how people "just need to get over it" and how depicting violence against transgendered people is okay doesn't belong here.

As to whether this mod adds any benefit to the game, no. Nor do 90% of the other mods. This is for atmosphere.

Unfortunately, reproductive organs can't work properly with this mod, so no there aren't transmales that can have babies or transwomen that can impregnate women. That was my intent, but the gender specific flag and the pronouns are tied together, and you can't switch it up very much.

Either way, if you have questions about the mod specifically, or anything to add, that's fine. But the whole "why do we even need this mod?" and "this is stupid because..." doesn't belong here. You wouldn't post it in other mod threads.

[Meph]

But the whole "why do we even need this mod?" and "this is stupid because..." doesn't belong here. You wouldn't post it in other mod threads.

As a mod author I just wanted to let you know that this isnt true. Negative, just like positive, feedback is an integral part of this modding community. You could really lighten up a bit and be more approachable.

[Putnam]

listen to Meph he is very used to negative feedback

from me even

especially from me even