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[smeeprocket]

So why'll I sit on my thumbs and hope for a solution to this string problem, I can't help but be frustrated with the genderfluid dwarves being incapable of forming relationships.

It just seems like there should be some way to at least construct a script that would... hmm, maybe make other dwarves perceive them as male or female, thereby allowing them to have relationships.

[MDFification]

So why'll I sit on my thumbs and hope for a solution to this string problem, I can't help but be frustrated with the genderfluid dwarves being incapable of forming relationships.

It just seems like there should be some way to at least construct a script that would... hmm, maybe make other dwarves perceive them as male or female, thereby allowing them to have relationships.

Might be possible with DFhack, though I don't know enough about DFhack to provide you with any real useful advice. But I have heard accounts of people who were able to do things ridiculous with DFhack, like swap a spawned creature's identity with a diety, or change a creature's status from dead to alive (although the corpse was still there, the creature respawned). If you can do that, I don't see why you can't change a dwarve's relationship status. I think that's definately possible; I think there was a script that forced dwarves to pair up regardless of sexual preferences or age posted a while back.
The hard part would be ensuring that the script only generates relationships intelligently and not just purely randomly.

[smeeprocket]

yea, it would have to be something that worked off of friendships the dwarf has, and then tricked the potential partner into identifying that dwarf as their preferred gender. Then the relationship should exist or not exist organically.

[smeeprocket]

Okay update. It looks like, per Insolor, the problem is with the replacement for it and its, being they and there, respectively, being too long. It's not something that can be changed, unfortunately.

I don't know where the actual quote is, but this seems relevant and interesting also:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146246.msg5866679#msg5866679

I apologize on behalf of like multiple people in that thread, because they certainly won't.

[k33n]

 

real life psychopaths to do deranged things virtually.

I will never understand the tentative grasp on reality that people have who are offended by fiction, or those who can claim a fictional, imaginary act can even have morality.

...

Maybe I am confused or missing the point, but how can a society without any sort of gender roles have non surgical trans people?

[Illogical_Blox]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

[Ogdibus]

Trans people play the game.  You don't need any more reason than that.  You might as well ask why the game has such a wide range of skin colors or hair lengths.  Those things have no mechanical effect, but are still included.

[smeeprocket]

real life psychopaths to do deranged things virtually.

I will never understand the tentative grasp on reality that people have who are offended by fiction, or those who can claim a fictional, imaginary act can even have morality.

...

Maybe I am confused or missing the point, but how can a society without any sort of gender roles have non surgical trans people?

when violence rates for a group of people is as ridiculously high as it is for transpeople, making that kind of fiction isn't okay.

I know some people like to act like nothing said or written should ever be offensive or judged, but I find that everyone has something that will hurt them. When rape and murder are a very real threat if anyone finds out you are what you are, that shit isn't very funny.

People will specifically out trans people for just this, You have 4chan forming groups of people to try and get trans people to kill themselves. There are facebook groups dedicated to outting trans people to further encourage violence.

It really only takes a basic grasp on empathy to understand why this would be wrong, and why the intent of someone doing this would make them a fundamentally bad person.

The whole internet sociopath-y embraced by 4chan and reddit needs to go away. There are real, live people behind the screens.

gender roles and gender identity are different. Also, DF has some rudimentary gender roles, the mother takes care of the infant until after one year for example. The father won't pick the baby up if the mother dies and it is crawling around.

[smeeprocket]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

[Toady One]

(removed some posts)

[Illogical_Blox]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

Nah, what I was saying was that in a medieval society, most gays and transsexuals usually just... married the other gender and didn't act on their impulses on the belief that it was unnatural. The society and indeed the people had no concept of a non-straight person.

[smeeprocket]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

Nah, what I was saying was that in a medieval society, most gays and transsexuals usually just... married the other gender and didn't act on their impulses on the belief that it was unnatural. The society and indeed the people had no concept of a non-straight person.

they did, and it was accepted in some circles. For the most part, it was just considered abhorrent. That doesn't mean that they weren't there.

Dwarves don't really follow European medieval conventions in that sense. They have no dogma condemning such things.

I feel that, as I mentioned with children, there are gender roles, such that I would assume there are small bit of gender identity. But part of it is also about being inclusive. Including people is always a good thing. Dwarves also have no prejudices towards different skin colors, so I don't think they would suppress transgenders and homosexuals.

[Putnam]

They also have no prejudices against homosexuals in-game, so

[Illogical_Blox]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

Nah, what I was saying was that in a medieval society, most gays and transsexuals usually just... married the other gender and didn't act on their impulses on the belief that it was unnatural. The society and indeed the people had no concept of a non-straight person.

they did, and it was accepted in some circles. For the most part, it was just considered abhorrent. That doesn't mean that they weren't there.

Dwarves don't really follow European medieval conventions in that sense. They have no dogma condemning such things.

I feel that, as I mentioned with children, there are gender roles, such that I would assume there are small bit of gender identity. But part of it is also about being inclusive. Including people is always a good thing. Dwarves also have no prejudices towards different skin colors, so I don't think they would suppress transgenders and homosexuals.

a) I didn't know that, huh.
b) I NEVER said they didn't exist.
c) While the "not-following-conventions" thing is true... well, I've always considered them a somewhat conservative race. Of course, we don't know, as Toady One will never add this, but suppression seems like the sort of thing they would do.

[smeeprocket]

Nice mod, though I wouldn't download as I honestly don't think a medieval society would have the concept of transsexual yet.

Any reason why you added them?

transpeople have always existed. It's not something someone picks up, you are born that way. So yea, medieval society had them, they just staid well hidden, assuming you don't look at some native american or indian societies that had third and fourth genders.

Nah, what I was saying was that in a medieval society, most gays and transsexuals usually just... married the other gender and didn't act on their impulses on the belief that it was unnatural. The society and indeed the people had no concept of a non-straight person.

they did, and it was accepted in some circles. For the most part, it was just considered abhorrent. That doesn't mean that they weren't there.

Dwarves don't really follow European medieval conventions in that sense. They have no dogma condemning such things.

I feel that, as I mentioned with children, there are gender roles, such that I would assume there are small bit of gender identity. But part of it is also about being inclusive. Including people is always a good thing. Dwarves also have no prejudices towards different skin colors, so I don't think they would suppress transgenders and homosexuals.

a) I didn't know that, huh.
b) I NEVER said they didn't exist.
c) While the "not-following-conventions" thing is true... well, I've always considered them a somewhat conservative race. Of course, we don't know, as Toady One will never add this, but suppression seems like the sort of thing they would do.

they seem to have no problem with homosexuality, I don't know why they would have a problem with trans people. That's not written into their code.