Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Orange Wizard]

That wouldnt work, because the tags are what defines their gender. You'd get two male castes and two females castes, just with half of them having beards, the other half without beards. The articles (he/she) and marriage/child birth behaviour would stay the same.

MALE creatures wont give birth, regardless of any child tags.

Oh, okay. Admittedly, I've never worked with castes before.

[samanato]

Third gender would be more appropriate for this time period imo.

You could always add creature castes, but this would imply a biological third sex, which is not the same as a third gender or transgender.

[smeeprocket]

Just a note: "hermaphrodite" is considered an outdated, inaccurate term, and by some even a slur. A better term is 'intersex'.

That said, I do appreciate the effort; it might be a good idea however to do some research. Trans people (like myself as it happens) generally don't appreciate having their genitals referred to as the 'opposite sex'. I'm not gonna bore everyone here with current gender politics, esp. as the chance of it going smoothly on a video-game forum is slim to none.

One way to do it, imo, is that there'd be simply two categories for each dwarf instead of one: you'd have a M/F/? column, and a cis/trans/? column, with categories that aren't cis having a chance to have either type of reproductive system. This is very confusing; that is because we are trying to approximate a very complex system, with biological and societal basis, into a simplistic binary system.

A better system in fact would be to not disclose trans status and just give any couple a chance to be able to bear children or not, combined with giving dwarves the ability to occasionally switch their gender markers. That would be the most respectful and realistic way to portray gender diversity.

A third option would be to simply make up a completely new gender system because hey, they're dwarves, they live underground and run on alcohol, they're already far beyond the scope of a human-modelled society! I mean up to now they reproduced by bloody spores!

Of course, I doubt that's possible within the code. Not to mention I'm kinda unenthused about having to hear the average stereotypical gamer dude's thoughts and opinions on transgender people in their video games. (I'd love to be proven wrong though!) If you're interested in having a polite, respectful discussion about gender, do hit me up by private message - I'm perfectly willing to educate.

Thanks you for correcting me! I always assumed intersex referred more to things like genderqueer and genderfluid. This is all newish to me, I am still learning, and I really appreciate it.

[smeeprocket]

Third gender would be more appropriate for this time period imo.

You could always add creature castes, but this would imply a biological third sex, which is not the same as a third gender or transgender.

if I tried to do that, wouldn't I get it as the pronoun though?

Yea third gender might be best but then could I make them able to reproduce or would that be impossible.

[Orange Wizard]

pronoun

I don't think DF has any pronouns other than the standard he/she. I don't know as to what ungendered castes are referred, though - might just be he? They, p'raps?

[Putnam]

"It".

[smeeprocket]

"It".

yea that would be pretty derogatory though.

They, them, their is a nightmare for me to look at grammatically, but is more appropriate.

Is there a way to mod that or hack it or something?

[Orange Wizard]

The string replacer thingy, I guess, but that'd have side-effects. Nothing else I can think of.

...

"It".

Perfect!

[samanato]

If I recall, it's cross-culturally more common for a third gender to refer to themselves by feminine pronouns, if the language has gendered pronouns at all.

[smeeprocket]

If I recall, it's cross-culturally more common for a third gender to refer to themselves by feminine pronouns, if the language has gendered pronouns at all.

hmm I want it to have the other side as well, though I know it was more common to see transfemales than it was transmales. Not that they were or were not less common, it just was more commonly seen, and that was what is tied to things like Hijra.

I'd like to include it for both genders, so hmm.

Maybe there is a way to make the castes not reproduce at all, and then just at the transgender descriptor?

[Gnorm]

Considering the code has does not share the transsexual concept of "gender identity," I don't think that you could do much beyond having male dwarves without beards. You'd have better luck making hermaphodites, though.

EDIT: Never mind.

[Putnam]

You'd havebetter luck making hermaphodites, though.

We've been over this. in this topic. That doesn't work at all. It's actually easier to make lame, fake transgendered people.

[King Kravoka]

What we really need is genderswitching.

[Meph]

What we really need is genderswitching.

Thats easy. Happened to my dwarves often enough on accident, when I started to work with transformations. Just transform a male dwarf into a female dwarf, its super simple. It works like the werebeast transformation.

[Grimlocke]

Unless there were some changes in version .40 I am now aware of, DF genders can be male, female or neuter. Males always parter with females and vice versa, only female can bear children, neuter cannot reproduce and is referred to ingame as 'it'. Gender icons are tied to this system, meaning adding new ones is not an option.

If you want to add transgenders, this is what you got to work with. All I can think of is giving them separate creature descriptions and possibly caste names. There is no way to separate the he-she-it text from the reproductive bits so this will always be somewhat inconsistent.

I wouldn't expect this to be expanded upon either. Toady has so far made a policy of abstracting sexuality and reproduction to a high degree, in order to keep the uh... emerging possibilities and inevitable bad publicity at bay (and away from bay12, heheh).

er males do not always partner with females, that was changed in the recent version. homosexuality etc is in the game.

bad publicity? You mean by being inclusive. I guess for the hate crowd that would be bad publicity, anyway that isn't something I wanted to discuss.

Guess there were some changes made then.

Also it's not about inclusivity, its well, Obok Meatgod. Adding one thing to DF causes a myriad of possibilities to open up so once Toady were to add poop and sex, some pretty nasty and vile possibilities come up (just read Obok Meatgod if you want an example) which will inevitably end up in the press in the worst way possible.

I can't really blame Toady for dodging this one.