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[smeeprocket]

guys,

the problem for me was, like for LadyGolem, the idea that this would be inherently bad or lead to problems when it is just including other genders besides the binary ones. If the problem was the perception I would be adding reproductive organs, that is not the case.

If you are accepting, and your intent was not inappropriate, that is fine. In between the quoted posts and now I just asked not to fight about it. It's just a difficult topic, because hostility and hate are a very real thing for transgendered persons, so just being sensitive to the issue is important. Also, it was clarified early in the thread that hermaphodite is derogatory, and intersex is more appropriate.

I don't know why everyone is leaving the thread, after the post grim posted (which was early in the thread) I just asked that we didn't fight about it, because I want to make this a reality.

So I have a few questions that hopefully someone can answer...

to change all instances of it, its, and itself, what line number are those on, I assume it is in the template file.

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

There may be other questions, I just can't think of any atm.

[Orange Wizard]

I'm not sure if hostility is the best way to deal with hostility.

...

In any case, a new dwarf entity file is likely to cause raw-dupe-bugs. I'm not really sure how it works, unfortunately. If you're concerned about portability, I'd suggest distributing two files - one which is effectively a "backup" entity file, the same as included with the default game, and a second which has been modified to include the new genderfluid/whatever castes. Alternatively, just plonk in a line explaining that all the user has to do is "delete X lines to return to default behaviour", or something similar.

AKAIK, attraction in DF is based around sex - so only MALE and FEMALE creatures are affected. A "genderless" caste would not be attracted to anyone, seeing as it doesn't have a sex and the attraction system is kinda ad-hoc at this point.

[Gnorm]

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

You'll need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files—I believe—unless you would rather simply cut the raws for the dwarves and paste them into a brand-new file. I personally don't understand your aversion to simply updating the current creature_standard file.

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

I don't think that the [ORIENTATION] token will allow one to be attracted to something without a gender.

Would it be possible to get an ETA on this mod?

[smeeprocket]

I'm not sure if hostility is the best way to deal with hostility.

...

In any case, a new dwarf entity file is likely to cause raw-dupe-bugs. I'm not really sure how it works, unfortunately. If you're concerned about portability, I'd suggest distributing two files - one which is effectively a "backup" entity file, the same as included with the default game, and a second which has been modified to include the new genderfluid/whatever castes. Alternatively, just plonk in a line explaining that all the user has to do is "delete X lines to return to default behaviour", or something similar.

AKAIK, attraction in DF is based around sex - so only MALE and FEMALE creatures are affected. A "genderless" caste would not be attracted to anyone, seeing as it doesn't have a sex and the attraction system is kinda ad-hoc at this point.

thank you, I appreciate the response.

now if I can find where its and it are hidden I can change those instances to they and their.

I think I have an idea of how to do this otherwise. It will be clunky, but it will have some semblance of working.

Putnam wrote me a script that gets orphans adopted by any couple randomly, so I can add that in too.

[smeeprocket]

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

You'll need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files—I believe—unless you would rather simply cut the raws for the dwarves and paste them into a brand-new file. I personally don't understand your aversion to simply updating the current creature_standard file.

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

I don't think that the [ORIENTATION] token will allow one to be attracted to something without a gender.

Would it be possible to get an ETA on this mod?

as soon as I can figure it out, which shouldn't be long, if it is working, maybe tonight or tomorrow. I am not entirely sure how to edit the frequency of transgender and genderfluid occurring, though.

[Gnorm]

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

You'll need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files—I believe—unless you would rather simply cut the raws for the dwarves and paste them into a brand-new file. I personally don't understand your aversion to simply updating the current creature_standard file.

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

I don't think that the [ORIENTATION] token will allow one to be attracted to something without a gender.

Would it be possible to get an ETA on this mod?

as soon as I can figure it out, which shouldn't be long, if it is working, maybe tonight or tomorrow. I am not entirely sure how to edit the frequency of transgender and genderfluid occurring, though.

If it's all caste-based, the [POP_RATIO] token ought help control their populations.

[smeeprocket]

this is what I have for the genders, I moved the description tag to inside the castes, I am not sure if that will make each description specific to each caste or if it will cause problems

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
[MALE]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:TRANS_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is transsexual, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
                [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[STERILE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:TRANS_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is transsexual, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[STERILE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf is intersex and indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is intersex, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
[STERILE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is intersex, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[STERILE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]

I've given everyone beards because all dwarves should have beards and it makes more sense, because I'm not sure who would or wouldn't have beards otherwise with genderfluid and intersex.

[smeeprocket]

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

You'll need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files—I believe—unless you would rather simply cut the raws for the dwarves and paste them into a brand-new file. I personally don't understand your aversion to simply updating the current creature_standard file.

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

I don't think that the [ORIENTATION] token will allow one to be attracted to something without a gender.

Would it be possible to get an ETA on this mod?

as soon as I can figure it out, which shouldn't be long, if it is working, maybe tonight or tomorrow. I am not entirely sure how to edit the frequency of transgender and genderfluid occurring, though.

If it's all caste-based, the [POP_RATIO] token ought help control their populations.

How does the pop_ratio number work? And would it be added inside the caste tags? Would I need to add them to male and female castes also?

[Gnorm]

If I make a new file with the dwarf race but with different castes, will that cause the weird duplicate bugs, do I need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files instead?

You'll need to edit the current raws in the vanilla files—I believe—unless you would rather simply cut the raws for the dwarves and paste them into a brand-new file. I personally don't understand your aversion to simply updating the current creature_standard file.

Is it possible to make a genderless caste that would still be able to have relationships with other dwarves? I know they could probably get attracted, I'm just not sure about if other dwarves could get attracted to them.

I don't think that the [ORIENTATION] token will allow one to be attracted to something without a gender.

Would it be possible to get an ETA on this mod?

as soon as I can figure it out, which shouldn't be long, if it is working, maybe tonight or tomorrow. I am not entirely sure how to edit the frequency of transgender and genderfluid occurring, though.

If it's all caste-based, the [POP_RATIO] token ought help control their populations.

How does the pop_ratio number work? And would it be added inside the caste tags? Would I need to add them to male and female castes also?

The lower the number, the rarer the caste. I'm not sure what it defaults to, though it might be wise to add them to the normal dwarves just so that you can be sure that you get the ratio you desire.

[smeeprocket]

what is the max, is it percentage based? so if I put 50 by female, and 60 by male, it would be half and half?

So I would put maybe 45 by female, 45 by male, and divy the rest up?

[smeeprocket]

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:47]
[CASTE:MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
[MALE]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:47]
[CASTE:TRANS_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is transsexual, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
                                    [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[STERILE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[POP_RATIO:1]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:TRANS_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is transsexual, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[STERILE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf is intersex and indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is intersex, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
                [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[STERILE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is intersex, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[STERILE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
So this is with pop ratio, I am wondering if this is too common, but I would rather overestimate than underestimate.

[Gnorm]

what is the max, is it percentage based? so if I put 50 by female, and 60 by male, it would be half and half?

So I would put maybe 45 by female, 45 by male, and divy the rest up?

I don't think that it's a percentage; you'll probably want the ordinary dwarves' ratios higher than that.

[smeeprocket]

okay do you know where the pronouns for the [NO_GENDER] tag is stored, by chance? I couldn't find it in template.lng

[Putnam]

what is the max, is it percentage based? so if I put 50 by female, and 60 by male, it would be half and half?

So I would put maybe 45 by female, 45 by male, and divy the rest up?

It's ratio based, as the name suggests. If you have all of the amounts being 1, they'll all be equally common. If you make one of them 2, that one will be twice as common as the rest. Some examples with 4 castes:

25,25,25,25: all equally common

50,50,50,50: all equally common

75,25,50,50: second one appears only 12.5%, first one 37.5%, third and fourth 25% each

10000000,10000000,10000000,1: fourth one will only appear less than 0.00000004% of the time, rest are equal with each other.

And so on.

[smeeprocket]

ahh okay, so looking back meph said sterility requires an interaction so I have a new interaction file and then this is my current castes:

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:500]
[CASTE:MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.]
[MALE]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:500]
[CASTE:TRANS_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is transsexual, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:STERILE_DWARVES]
      [CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[POP_RATIO:1]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[CASTE:TRANS_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is transsexual, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:STERILE_DWARVES]
      [CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_GENDERFLUID]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. This dwarf is intersex and indentifies as genderfluid.]
[NO_GENDER]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. She is intersex, and identifies as female.]
[FEMALE]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:STERILE_DWARVES]
      [CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:INTERSEX_MALE]
[DESCRIPTION:A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry. He is intersex, and identifies as male.]
[MALE]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:STERILE_DWARVES]
      [CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ONLY]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[POP_RATIO:1]