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Python

5 (29.4%)

C# or other version of C

12 (70.6%)

Total Members Voted: 16

[LoSboccacc]

same here, I can't see a bay12 game without petty rivalries and infighting

[BlindKitty]

That's why I prefer it to be more of a kingdom/city/guild type management in the medieval era.

It avoids making everything super abstract like capitalism where everything is just...spreadsheets essentially. Mostly because nowadays that is what it all is. Everything is done on computers and its so world wide there is no room for finer small details.

it gives us a lot of freedom with outside influences of trade. I feel the economy was probably far more volatile back then in regards to regional trade and what not.

It allows us the proper detail we need. In a medieval setting most cities are in the low thousands at most and villages in the hundreds at most which means if we want to or feel the need to simulate people and consumption of more specific products it can be reasonable to do so.

Finally for production chains, when dealing with a guild or town or country you have the ability to gather the proper work forces and materials to make an industry of things

Well, I think most of that stands true for industrial era, too. No computers (and no spreadsheets), a lot of outside influences still (perhaps not as much as in medieval era, but this is good for me; I would prefer simulating economy, not lottery where a famine can kill your business - and you - with you having no say in it whatsoever...), and reduced need to simulate warfare and other forms of fighting (as I can easily imagine a transportation of goods without escort in industrial era, but not so much in the medieval times).

Also, medieval cities were not uncommonly counted in tens of thousands of inhabitants, not to mention places in China that were hitting millions at the time. Actually, biggest cities in the world are consistently over 10 000 inhabitants since as far back as 3500 BC, according to Wikipedia. That, and trying to simulate economy with more parameters on less population is exponentially more difficult than less parameters and more population. Every person is quite volatile and often not really reasonable about their choices, but humanity as a whole is much easier to predict.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I would also like the ability to produce no less then 50 types of pure metals and alloys in econosim, so there's that.

[LoSboccacc]

Famine in patrician were a way to profit 

[dennislp3]

That's why I prefer it to be more of a kingdom/city/guild type management in the medieval era.

It avoids making everything super abstract like capitalism where everything is just...spreadsheets essentially. Mostly because nowadays that is what it all is. Everything is done on computers and its so world wide there is no room for finer small details.

it gives us a lot of freedom with outside influences of trade. I feel the economy was probably far more volatile back then in regards to regional trade and what not.

It allows us the proper detail we need. In a medieval setting most cities are in the low thousands at most and villages in the hundreds at most which means if we want to or feel the need to simulate people and consumption of more specific products it can be reasonable to do so.

Finally for production chains, when dealing with a guild or town or country you have the ability to gather the proper work forces and materials to make an industry of things

Well, I think most of that stands true for industrial era, too. No computers (and no spreadsheets), a lot of outside influences still (perhaps not as much as in medieval era, but this is good for me; I would prefer simulating economy, not lottery where a famine can kill your business - and you - with you having no say in it whatsoever...), and reduced need to simulate warfare and other forms of fighting (as I can easily imagine a transportation of goods without escort in industrial era, but not so much in the medieval times).

Also, medieval cities were not uncommonly counted in tens of thousands of inhabitants, not to mention places in China that were hitting millions at the time. Actually, biggest cities in the world are consistently over 10 000 inhabitants since as far back as 3500 BC, according to Wikipedia. That, and trying to simulate economy with more parameters on less population is exponentially more difficult than less parameters and more population. Every person is quite volatile and often not really reasonable about their choices, but humanity as a whole is much easier to predict.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I would also like the ability to produce no less then 50 types of pure metals and alloys in econosim, so there's that.

While I know there were plenty of places that had well over 10000 or more inhabitants the average city or town in medieval times was not that size. If we are going to simulate the whole world that would be a moot point anyways because our level of abstraction at that point wouldn't require making anyone personable.

[BlindKitty]

@dennislp3 - while we can surely limit ourselves to small cities, it doesn't really make all that much sense to me... I mean, why would a successful merchant stay in a small, backward city when there is a fledgling capital not that far away, where he can make more money? And while placing a one-city limit (due to travel problems, for example), and abstracting the rest of the market can be a good idea, I would think that one could move from city to city, at least in a single country, and we should be able to simulate the biggest city available in such country.

I mean, most people would be playing to get their business as big as possible, not to forge swords in this same small forge for few generations, I think.

[dennislp3]

I agree...I never said anything about not having a few large cities...I was just saying that modelling a large amount of large cities in such a setting wouldn't make much sense...that being said thats why I have been talking about running a town/guild as opposed to a single person...much more to do that walk back and forth between the most profitable towns

[BlindKitty]

Another thing came to my mind: there is a game engine for 2D games, that is based on Lua and seems quite nice: Löve (should be in all caps, but I don't want to look in Unicode tables for capital ö now), available (freely) here: love2d.org.
Lua is scripting language, very easy to pick up and Löve seems to be the same way. Worth at least a look.

[kytuzian]

Another thing came to my mind: there is a game engine for 2D games, that is based on Lua and seems quite nice: Löve (should be in all caps, but I don't want to look in Unicode tables for capital ö now), available (freely) here: love2d.org.
Lua is scripting language, very easy to pick up and Löve seems to be the same way. Worth at least a look.

I think more people know Python and C#, and I know that I prefer either one of those over Lua. Besides, there is PyGame for Python and Unity for C#.

[dennislp3]

Unity is still my preferred method of development...it has a large amount of tools and systems that can make many aspects of this whole thing very easy...especially on the distribution front

[Zangi]

Posting to watch.  (I'll keep my presence to a minimum since I probably won't contribute any coding whatsoever.)

[mainiac]

Well the poll results aren't in but it seems like I'm going to need to learn C#.

dennislp3, you seem to be pretty into this idea and confident about Unity.  Would you be interested in taking the lead on UI while I take the lead on the economics of the game engine?

I think that the project vision sounds like something along these lines...  The player takes a role in trading goods in some sort of ecosystem where large towns/cities form the focal points on the map.  The player will have mechanics for moving goods between towns and can own means of production within a town to get resources to sell.  Demand for goods can be simulated at the customer level meaning that no industry can just infinitely grow through reinvestment and more sales.

[dennislp3]

Poll results after 8 entries (zeros not included):

What Programming Language do you prefer?
Python: 1
C#: 7

What tools should be used in the project? Game development tools, sound tools, graphics tools, etc
Libraries: Unity 4.6
Source control and project collaboration: Git with GitHub
IDE: Visual Studio, Visual Studio Community, SharpDevelop
Depending on the sort of game Unity could be good, but if it's a mainly text based game Windows Presentation Foundation would be better
Unity looks fine, anything that will take off 2d and interaction code from our hands really. Also would be nice to be able to distribute executables
Unity

What perspective would you prefer the game to be? Please note features like laws/policy changes, city/population mechanics, etc. should not be factored into your choice as those can be altered later.
RPG style, control a single trader: 1    12.5%
RPG/Strategy style, control multiple characters: 1    12.5%
Sim style, control a business/guild: 6    75.0%
Sim/management style, control a city/town: 4    50.0%
Sim/Strategy style, control a city/town + population control: 3    37.5%
God game style, control a nation/population: 2     25%    

What time span should the game use? Keep in mind that variable speeds for time passage will likely be included regardless of how long games are meant to be.
Slow/"realtime" basis. Games meant to take place over a few years at most: 2    25.0%
Accelerated. Games meant to be played over the span of many years: 6    75.0%
Accelerated/abstract. Games meant to take place over decades: 3    37.5%
Abstract. Games meant to be played over 100+ years: 1    12.5%


What time frame should the game be styled after?
Ancient History/Start of Civilization (Ancient Egypt/Asia/tribal societies etc): 3    37.5%
Early History (Bronze/Iron age): 4    50.0%
Medieval History ~700AD - ~1300AD: 3    37.5%
Early Industrial ~1800 - ~1920: 5    62.5%
Modern ~1920 - ~2050: 2    25.0%
Futuristic ~2100+: 2    25.0%


What setting should the game take place in?
Real World/historical: 1   12.5%
Real World/Alt history/very low fantasy (some magic/mythical creatures etc): 3   37.5%
Real World/Alt history/high fantasy (elves, dwarves, magic, etc): 3   37.5%

We still need to figure out setting and mechanic details but I would love to start working on the UI. I will see what sort of things I can get done.

[mainiac]

Okay so in the first iteration how about we have an interface to go between towns and the towns have customers who will buy things automatically from the player inventory while the player is in town and sellers the player can chose to buy from?  We will not track time, money of anybody but the player or inventory of anybody but the player.  Just a simple, go here or there and sell/buy.  All this takes place in some sort of fantasy world where there are early industrial overtones.  All this will take place within C# and with the Unity engine.  Sound good?

[LoSboccacc]

Poll seems to indicate the preference for having to control a business not a guy.

Gaining town presence, trading goods between the town and your local warehouse, shipping goods between warehouse, building production facilities that feed of warehouse, that sort of thing.

[Ambidextrous]

PTW. This looks interesting.