Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reelya]

Plus batteries. Lead based batteries make up about 50% of the world market. They clearly sell enough lead for the ILA to get upset if people say bad things about lead.

[IronyOwl]

Interesting.

Lead is similar to and may replace calcium in the human body.

Also this is neat.

[Darvi]

FEAR MY METAL BONES

[Leafsnail]

It's well known that lead is very poisonous and can cause neurological problems, especially in young children, so we should not be exposing people to it regardless of whether it's responsible for long-term crime trends.  With that said though, I find a lot of these analyses very dubious.  The UK banned unleaded paint in 1992, and petrol in 1998 (as far as I can tell no serious move was made to even reduce the usage of it until the late 80s).  Under the "Banning lead causes crime rates to drop 23 years later" hypothesis you'd expect violent crime in the UK to still be rising, or at best for the trend to have reversed just a few years ago.  This isn't the case however - in actual fact the violent crime rate began to drop in the early 90s, just like in the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7511807.stm

[redwallzyl]

FEAR MY METAL BONES

unfortunately for you lead is one of the softest metals. you bones are much stronger and lighter.

[MaximumZero]

Also, calcium is a metal, too.

[Darvi]

Also, calcium is a metal, too.

thatspartofthejoke.png

[Reelya]

It's well known that lead is very poisonous and can cause neurological problems, especially in young children, so we should not be exposing people to it regardless of whether it's responsible for long-term crime trends.  With that said though, I find a lot of these analyses very dubious.  The UK banned unleaded paint in 1992, and petrol in 1998 (as far as I can tell no serious move was made to even reduce the usage of it until the late 80s).  Under the "Banning lead causes crime rates to drop 23 years later" hypothesis you'd expect violent crime in the UK to still be rising, or at best for the trend to have reversed just a few years ago.  This isn't the case however - in actual fact the violent crime rate began to drop in the early 90s, just like in the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7511807.stm

The USA banned leaded fuel in 1996. They had a similar lead-time, therefore it's not a discrepancy. 1996 vs 1998 is pretty close.

But the USA brought in unleaded in 1976, and the UK only brought in unleaded in 1986!

That sounds like a problem but then you can find citations to say that the UK cut allowable lead fuel concentations in half starting in 1976, from 0.84 g/l to 0.4 g/l, then they cut them again to 0.15 g/l in 1986. So the dates should actually correlate with the USA data. Both countries had 20 years of phasing down lead concentrations in leaded fuels. While the USA brought in unleaded a bit earlier, they were actually coming down from a higher concentration of lead than the UK, it started at ~1.05 g/l in the USA

Spoiler: UK 1976 phase out lead citation (click to show/hide)

http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/late-lessons-2/late-lessons-chapters/late-lessons-ii-chapter-3/at_download/file

EU policymaking on leaded petrol emerged mainly from the activities of the UK and Germany. In 1971, the UK government received advice from its Chief Medical Officer that air lead levels should not be allowed to increase above current levels. The government responded by deciding on a phased three stage reduction in petrol's lead content, from 0.84 to 0.4 g/l to be achieved in 1976.

Similar with paint, once, it was normal for leaded paints to be up to 50% lead, but by the end, it was a small percentage:
http://www.environment.gov.au/protection/publications/factsheet-lead-alert-facts-lead-house-paint

The recommended amount of lead in domestic paint has declined from 50% before 1965, to 1% in 1965. In 1992, it was reduced to 0.25%, and in 1997 it was further reduced to 0.1%. So, when you say "lead in paint" it dropped by a factor of 50 between the end of WWII and 1965. Current "leaded" paint is 500 times less lead than the 1950's lead paint. So the UK 1992 ban on leaded paint was the end of a long series of reductions anyway.

[Sheb]

PTW.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[scrdest]

Interesting.

Lead is similar to and may replace calcium in the human body.

Also this is neat.

Incidentally, same thing for arsenic, except for phosphorus and not calcium.

[Helgoland]

Thallium and potassium, too - not in the bones, but in a couple of enzymes. Generally a lot of heavy metal poisoning comes from them looking like something they're not, and our body falling for it.

[martinuzz]

"As mad as a hatter", and the Mad Hatter from Alice in Wonderland also have their root in lead poisoning. In the 18th-19th century Britain, the stiff rims of gentleman's hats were laced with lead. Most hatters went batshit insane in their later years from the effects of lead poisoning.

[MaximumZero]

I'm pretty sure my dad thinks lead poisoning is something the government made up so they could regulate us more.

You should get him tested for lead poisoning.

[Loud Whispers]

Under this hypothesis can you introduce lead food storage containers, lead paint, lead walls, lead cars, lead utensils, lead jewelry, lead clothing and lead whatever else you can lead and not only would:

• Cancer rates fall.
• Murder rates rise.

Meaning you could effectively engineer a murderous populous by leadening their water pipes?

Also when pointing to murder rates and other possibly correlating data, you must be aware that they also have other contenders for possible causes. They could all be directly correlating or not at all. Take toxoplasma gondii for example, in they infect a large proportion of the world and are also linked to increased aggression and sexual promiscuity. Does t. gondii or lead play the bigger role? Are they both factors? Are neither factors? What if the politicians scorned had some role in lowering crime? What if the police changed some strategy of theirs?