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Author Topic: Dwarven Slavery  (Read 15274 times)

smeeprocket

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #120 on: December 03, 2014, 02:50:20 pm »

Many of these game/films/culture also feature large numbers of men being massacred. These men are also pretty much 2 dimensional cannon fodder and victims. This is not misandry. Women being raped in fictional media is not misogyny either unless the developers endorse the acts and encourage consumers to repeat them in real life.

I thought rape culture in its original sense was a combination of endorsements of real rapes, victim blaming and lack of any legal prosecution for rape. I have not endorsed real rapes or accused you of being responsible for what happened to you, because that is obviously not the case. As for legal prosecution, that is not my responsibility, and I too would like to see sexual offences handled better by the law.

I feel like you didn't read my post or you would have noticed I never mentioned misandry in a serious sense because misandry is not against women, it is the idea that there is a system of oppression in place against men which is complete and utter bull.

Rape culture is a combination of a lot of things, one of them being trivializing it. The Hills Have Eyes is a great example of a film that uses it as a prop to be as horrible as possible, when these things are far more triggering than regular violence.

The reason violence against women is a bigger issue is because it is a bigger issue in real life. Especially in other countries or here in the form of domestic violence. It is trivialized and not taken seriously. We need only look to the NFL and their mishandling of sports players accused of beating their wives (including ray rice who did it on tape.) Women are physically weaker than men, something men love bringing up in any debate about equality, so it stands to reason that this particular violence is most despicable, especially since it is treated with such nonchalance.
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Steam Name: Ratpocalypse
Transpersons and intersex persons mod for Fortress mode of DF: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10204

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/princessslaughter/

"I can't wait to throw your corpse on to a jump pad and watch it take to the air like a child's imagination."

k33n

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2014, 02:51:17 pm »


The only one who lost their sense of civility is you. Again, you assume SO much about my gender and history of sexual abuse.

And now you have steered this thread so far away from slavery in DF, that you are ranting about how fictional violence should be illegal.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 02:53:02 pm by k33n »
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pisskop

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #122 on: December 03, 2014, 02:52:41 pm »

There doesnt have to be a system of oppression in place to make an individual sexist any more than  there has to be one in place to make one racist.  Individuals are perfectly capable of doing this on their own.

Are you trying to get at some kind of environmental of all ---isms?
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smeeprocket

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2014, 02:56:03 pm »

There doesnt have to be a system of oppression in place to make an individual sexist any more than  there has to be one in place to make one racist.  Individuals are perfectly capable of doing this on their own.

Are you trying to get at some kind of environmental of all ---isms?

you're confused about the concept. The system exists to prop it up. The system exists to promote it. Everything around us pushes these things. People are still personally responsible if they are racist or sexist, but they are supported in their beliefs by the system. The system gives these beliefs power. They can be enforced because of the system.

I'm just not going to respond to k33n anymore, since he is completely incapable of acting like an adult.
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Steam Name: Ratpocalypse
Transpersons and intersex persons mod for Fortress mode of DF: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10204

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/princessslaughter/

"I can't wait to throw your corpse on to a jump pad and watch it take to the air like a child's imagination."

k33n

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2014, 02:56:43 pm »

I'm just not going to respond to k33n anymore, since he is completely incapable of acting like an adult.

How ironic.
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Dyret

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #125 on: December 03, 2014, 03:01:23 pm »

Dyret, I doubt anything I say is going to be helpful to you. You simply believe that the problem does not exist. I can't force you to see a problem that you refuse to see. It is not within your realm of experience, and therefore you simply deny its existence. This only serves to hurt minorities and promotes the oppression of people because of their race, sexuality, gender, etc. You are, effectively, part of the problem by virtue of simply refusing to believe it exists.

No, I see a problem with female portrayal in the media for instance. When Aliens, or more recently Dragon Age: Inquisition is considered a groundbreaking feminist work for having female characters that aren't fucking useless there is definitely a problem. What I'm more sceptical to is how much this actually bleeds over into real life attitudes. I know of four rapist IRL, and much like people who torture cats I don't think any amount of societal or media influence could prevent them from turning into vile, disgusting people, but that's the other internet debate that never ends well.

In any event my original point was 'don't blanket hurt/antagonize people who may be willing to listen.' I shouldn't have brought up the personal bullshit.
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smeeprocket

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Re: Dwarven Slavery
« Reply #126 on: December 03, 2014, 03:11:01 pm »

Dyret, I doubt anything I say is going to be helpful to you. You simply believe that the problem does not exist. I can't force you to see a problem that you refuse to see. It is not within your realm of experience, and therefore you simply deny its existence. This only serves to hurt minorities and promotes the oppression of people because of their race, sexuality, gender, etc. You are, effectively, part of the problem by virtue of simply refusing to believe it exists.

No, I see a problem with female portrayal in the media for instance. When Aliens, or more recently Dragon Age: Inquisition is considered a groundbreaking feminist work for having female characters that aren't fucking useless there is definitely a problem. What I'm more sceptical to is how much this actually bleeds over into real life attitudes. I know of four rapist IRL, and much like people who torture cats I don't think any amount of societal or media influence could prevent them from turning into vile, disgusting people, but that's the other internet debate that never ends well.

In any event my original point was 'don't blanket hurt/antagonize people who may be willing to listen.' I shouldn't have brought up the personal bullshit.

you know of four rapists, how many do you not know. The obvious ones are easy to hate, the ones who rape a girl after she's drank to much to struggle, or guys that rape their girlfriends, etc cause more questions and skepticism towards the victims than the rapist. And there are always questions for the victim because we expect them to fight back or behave a certain way. Or not fight back, that's also an expectation, whatever you do is going to be unexpected for someone and they are going to question your integrity.

Hollywood does dramatically affect real life and you see that in hollywood because it in in real life. The pay gap, for example. The very few women represented in STEM jobs, which has a lot to do with girls being discouraged from participating in the things that would make them interested in these jobs.

I mean toys are actually more gendered than they ever were in a long time, there has been a drop in women in STEM jobs, there's all these areas where we have lost ground and things have become hyper focused on gender roles and stereotypes, and that's not counting the backlash against feminism which brought us gems like the Man Show and Jimmy Kimmel inexplicably having a career.

And it's not just women that suffer from the patriarchy. Recently, Shia LeBeouf revealed that he had been raped by a woman, and you have human filth like Piers Morgan flat out calling him weak and a liar and just being a despicable human being. I've had liberal sites I have unliked because they have had the nerve to question this like it just isn't possible.

I get what you are saying about speaking to the audience and not alienating people but that is trickier than it sounds. There is this abject refusal to perceive privilege. Look, I'm white, I know all about privilege. There's a ton of benefits to having white skin. I realize it can make you angry to hear that you might be getting things that others don't get due to something you yourself can not control. But we've got to move past that.

I've made mistakes in the past where I have said ableist things, for example. and at first, you get angry, like you are not that kind of person and you would never intend that, but then you have to move past that and question whether or not it is true, and if it is, what you can do to change that, or in the case of privilege, what you can do to elevate others to the level of privilege you receive.
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Steam Name: Ratpocalypse
Transpersons and intersex persons mod for Fortress mode of DF: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10204

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/princessslaughter/

"I can't wait to throw your corpse on to a jump pad and watch it take to the air like a child's imagination."
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