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[Bohandas]

Nobody is asking for this feature because people want spore breeding just like real life. People want it because that's how we got used to handle breeding. It was more of an exploit than anything else. It just makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not gonna tell anybody how to play the game, but it's just how it sounds like to me. We should try to adapt.

I'm all for a realistic addition of other types of breeding though.

Actually tracking the expannsion of clouds of sperm would use up already scarce processor power and probably tax Toady1's sense of tactfulness. Whereas this is something tactful, non-resource-intensive, and which can be implemented immediately.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Tactfulness is not an issue in a game about kitten bone amulets and magma. The real issue is processor power, but at least making sure creatures are in the same room or contiguous area makes sense for spore-type breeding.

[Leatra]

From what I could understand, OP was asking for a simple tag so people can literally bring back this fixed exploit and keep abusing it by modding it in. I don't have a problem with it, and it sounds easily implementable, but it just feels like a weird thing to ask for.

After quantum stockpiles get fixed, we might see a similar suggestion.

[GavJ]

Nobody is asking for this feature because people want spore breeding just like real life.

I'm all for a realistic addition of other types of breeding though.

Contradictory post is contradictory. Spore type breeding is a real thing for a LARGE number of species, and if you're all for being able to add realistic breeding when appropriate for different species, then you should fully support this thread. Simple as that.

After quantum stockpiles get fixed, we might see a similar suggestion.

Quantum stockpiling is not a real thing anywhere. Spore breeding is. That is a poor analogy.

[Gashcozokon]

I could see it going either way, I haven't had enough play time with 40.19 yet to say definitively that "contact distance" works all round.
But it is true that not every creature copulates to mate.
If there was an [init.txt] option I might set it to 5 or something.

A raws_tag allowing a per creature adjustment, would allow the already mentioned {Plump Helmut Men, etc} to function, and if anybody felt the urge to tamper with
spore breeding Naked Mole Dogs, or Cat-spelunking. Then that would be their choice.

After all, the raw are plain text so we can play with them. It hurts no-one else that My Carp have sharper teeth, or Dark Gnomes bleed Gnomeblight.
So, I believe it sounds fair to ask for a [breeding_range:X] tag to be added.

Spoiler: <CARP> (click to show/hide)

Anyone interested in an approximation of the CARP of Legend:

Code: (creature_large_riverlake.txt) [Select]

change
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
to this
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:10]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
Experimenting in the Arena has shown these carp can quickly ruin your day.

[Urist Tilaturist]

I am in favour of spore breeding for certain organisms, but I think it should be qualified by being in the same room or contiguous area (not through solid walls).

[Leatra]

Nobody is asking for this feature because people want spore breeding just like real life.

I'm all for a realistic addition of other types of breeding though.

Contradictory post is contradictory. Spore type breeding is a real thing for a LARGE number of species, and if you're all for being able to add realistic breeding when appropriate for different species, then you should fully support this thread. Simple as that.

After quantum stockpiles get fixed, we might see a similar suggestion.

Quantum stockpiling is not a real thing anywhere. Spore breeding is. That is a poor analogy.

You completely misunderstood my post. OP was asking for this so he can use the exploit, not to introduce spore breeding for creatures that use it. People quickly turned it into a discussion about the implementation of spore breeding. I said I would be okay with it if it was realistically added to the game rather than, say, a cow inside a cave giving birth after getting impregnated by the bull which is living on the grassland. I support spore breeding, not reintroduction of exploits or unrealistic methods like breeding through walls.

[StagnantSoul]

Where did he say he was going to exploit it? Nowhere. You just assumed that.

[Leatra]

You could then set it to something like one million to get back the old behavior.

That was kinda self-explanatory.

I'm not complaining about cheating in a single-player game. We all have our little exploits like danger rooms. Adding a breed range isn't enough for a realistic spore breeding system. It also shouldn't pass through walls and stuff.

[StagnantSoul]

You couldthen set it to something like one million to get back the old behavior.

That was kinda self-explanatory.

I'm not complaining about cheating in a single-player game. We all have our little exploits like danger rooms. Adding a breed range isn't enough for a realistic spore breeding system. It also shouldn't pass through walls and stuff.

That's a could, not that's the only thing I'll ever do. He's saying to give it in with much smaller values, with one million being the extreme that makes it like the old behaviour.

[smjjames]

Would be good if the OP gave clarification in all this.

[FallingWhale]

Sponges and things like them need the spore system otherwise they don't work.

[Niddhoger]

From what I could understand, OP was asking for a simple tag so people can literally bring back this fixed exploit and keep abusing it by modding it in. I don't have a problem with it, and it sounds easily implementable, but it just feels like a weird thing to ask for.

Exactly what everyone jumped at me for assuming... that the OP wants the old cheesy behavior back in as an exploit he could turn on/off. However as you also said, there has to be a realistic range to the spores.  From one corner to the map -might- work if there weren't mountains in hte way and the wind was blowing in the right direction... but not from the surface to the caverns or from one walled in creature to another outside said walls.

[GavJ]

I said I would be okay with it if it was realistically added to the game rather than, say, a cow inside a cave giving birth after getting impregnated by the bull which is living on the grassland.

I don't understand what you're talking about here. How it is used is up to the player and where they decide to put their personal raw tags or not.

The actual change to the COMPUTER CODE on Toady's end is exactly identical in both of the usages you described above -- the suggestion is merely to add the tags for players to choose to add as they see fit.

As long as there is any good reason to add them (in this case, realistic breeding of some species), then that's a reason to add them and the distinction you are making is irrelevant. Whether people decide to do other additional unrealistic things with them has nothing to do with the proposed game code change and is none of any of our concerns since it's a single player game.




If I want to using tags I can already trivially make dwarves that fly and eat bones and are made out of camel cheese while having body temperatures of 30,000 degrees fahrenheit... that's the nature of raw tags.

[Reelya]

I am in favour of spore breeding for certain organisms, but I think it should be qualified by being in the same room or contiguous area (not through solid walls).

Using the pathing system would be the best solution for that, and it should respect water etc. A fish in one pool shouldn't spawn with a fish in a different pool, even if close.

Would be good if the OP gave clarification in all this.

It's not really needed. An OP can open a topic for discussion, and the rest of us debate the pros, cons and methods of implementation. There's no requirement that only the OP can determine what the best version of the suggestion is.

===

If you want to go realistic, or claim realism is the basis of any model, we need to see evidence that it is actually realistic, rather than just convenient. I'm looking around for articles about "spore mating" and there really isn't any such thing. The scientific definition of the word spore, first, is an asexual unit of reproduction, gametes are not spores. We could use asexual reproduction for sure, but that negates the need for "spore breeding".

Then, I can't find any references to species where the sperm or eggs actually travel macro-scale distances to get to the other, which is what "spore breeding" entails. It just doesn't happen like that, as far as I can tell, in any species.

Female fish lay eggs, and then the male comes to the egg and squirts his business on them. There is no "at a distance" here, the male/female need to be in the same location at the same time, and this involves courtship behavior.

I'm also looking up fungi mating. They send out spores as babies, but they don't mate with spores, it says in what I'm reading that the two fungi form structures which merge and swap genetic material.

Even plants which breed at a distance do it through the vector of insects.

Let me know if I'm missing something.