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[smeeprocket]

Okay so, several times now I have had merchants leave in a huff because I don't want their counteroffer. I can't say no, I have to consider it, but when I am buying out their stock of everything and they want me to hand over 40k more in items, it gets old. I'll go through and deselect other items, only to have them throw another counteroffer at me, and it show them rapidly losing patience.

Is there a way to just turn down the counteroffer? I offer up what I want to trade that is worth what they are giving me. More actually, by quite a lot. Because they won't trade on a 1:1 basis.

[Skuggen]

You can haggle on it. Say they add 5000 moneys worth to what they ask, you can remove some of it, or add to what you ask in return.

But I think each time your offer is rejected it lowers their disposition somewhat, meaning you have to offer more than what they'd accept the first time.
I mostly just make offers that give them plenty of profit, and they almost always accept right away.

[smeeprocket]

They walked off with a 40k profit this time because of it. My changes had given them a 20k profit. That just seems excessive.

[Skuggen]

40k of how much? My guess is it's based on percentage, but that seems excessive unless the total was really high.

[Arx]

It's worth noting that you can (or could) sweeten them up with some low-value but very high profit initial trades. It's kind of cheaty, but it should give you more chance to haggle before they storm out.

[smeeprocket]

you know what else is weird? My baron died at some point (I didn't even realize it happened.)

I am a duchy now, but have no duke or duchess. How am I supposed to get my nobility back?

[smeeprocket]

40k of how much? My guess is it's based on percentage, but that seems excessive unless the total was really high.

I bought out everything. The total really wasn't that much compared to what their stuff was worth. I was, to be fair, using someone other than my broker because the bastard was attending a party.

But when I tried and selected less items, but kept what they counteroffered for, they counteroffered again and showed impatience.

[Larix]

I normally don't bring enough to the depot to get bothered with counteroffers, but there's a trivially easy way around them:

make a decent first offer.

"40k profit" is not the relevant metric: the merchants don't want an _amount_ in ☼, they want a _percentage_ margin. That margin is 50% of the value of the wares you acquire (i.e. 1/3 gross margin, which is way lower than the margins of modern-day commerce); when you receive a counteroffer on a 20k profit offer and they walked off with a 40k profit, you apparently tried to have something like 80k in their goods. Did you really need all that garbage - large gems, decorated bolts, musical instruments and whatnot?

Very happy merchants or a very skilled trader on your side may shave a few percent off the desired margins, but probably not to the point that your ludicrously low first offer would have gone through.

[smeeprocket]

I don't think they had 80k in merchandise. Not even close.

I select everything because I have an excess of goods and sorting through 100 bins of leather etc is slow. Also, I specifically request instruments and such to melt down.

My problem is, I have a stockpile just for weapon trap components and crafts that I allow to use bins, and that ends up bringing more to the depot than I even want them to actually see.

I stopped storing my spiked wooden balls in other bins because I stopped using bins otherwise and because they kept forcing me to sell my weapons that I had gotten from them the year before.

Also, I've definitely traded without the merchant having to be ecstatic with the trade. I generally shoot for very happy or pleased, if they are ecstatic they are getting far too much.

[Melting Sky]

Every time you offer them a trade that they don't find acceptable, it significantly increases how much it will cost you in the end. If you offer them a good trade to begin with they will not turn it down.

As others have pointed out, if you really care enough to game them then you can do a couple of low value trades first where you give them say a 700% profit. This will allow you to offer them less on the big trade without getting the otherwise lackluster offer shoved back in your face.

I generally just give them an offer with about 40% profit or better right off the bat and that seems to work every time, at least with a decent broker.

[smeeprocket]

The first trade was a good offer. A really good offer. The final trade was just them taking my stuff for free.

[pisskop]

Yea, they haggle hard.  Usually I add a few hundred dollars and dont sweat the loss.  But Ive been trading enough that I know what I can do and am willing to take by force what they wont trade.

Try removing the most ridiculous items they ask for and removing the extras you wanted.  You want the traders to leave happy.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I never get counter-offers if I offer a solid 50% premium on what I ask for. There's no excuse to be stingy with traders, goods are so incredibly easy to produce in non-usable quantities that you can flood every merchant forever with a single dedicated crafter.. Sometimes I give many factors more in goods than I buy, because I want to dump my goods off.

Especially easy when you just dump all your giant cave spider clothing in the depot. I seem to never run out of giant cave spider silk socks taken from kidnappers/invaders..

Also; if you get rejected once you need to offer a significantly better margin the second time. Bottom line. They don't like haggling with you. If they've counter-offered twice and you aren't offering all the goods you want to trade and aren't lowering what you're trying to buy, you're simply trading wrong. Otherwise quit being so greedy and give them more goods, it's literally impossible not to be flooded in fort wealth.

Yes, I did learn this the hard way as well like you did by having to give them your arm and a leg in order to fulfill the deal, but I just don't bother trying to sneak deals off merchants. I get the goods I want from them, I'm not looking to make 'profit'.

Those puny traders can take all the wealth from my fort they can carry and boast about the good deal they got when they get home, while not knowing all I've done is export my culture en masse while getting their delicious metals.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This will be much more satisfying when I can finally invade the areas around my fort only to find the goods, clothing, weapons, etc were made by my fort.

[smeeprocket]

Ugh. Well the main complaint for me was I am on a 1x4 embark and 3 of that is forest, so I'm working with a limited selection of trees for my trap components (especially since it dips a few z levels here and there, taking up valuable tree growing space with ramps.) I am already working like 4 wood burners and have burned through all my coke.

I'm just going to start trading them prepared meals though. I have almost 200 people, and I am still swimming in masterfully crafted roasts.

[Arx]

Just make rock crafts. -Bins- of *mugs* will sell for quite a lot, and you can just have a craftsdwarf's workshop set to making mugs /R. And then you can re-enact SpearBreakers!