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[Vivalas]

Comrade Shamrock


Comrade Shamrock: If you were lookout would you hide?

[Deus Asmoth]

Vivalas, why are you voting for Shamrock?

[TheDarkStar]

Scripten:

Replies in bold:

Yes, who wouldn't want to be watchman (unless they have some strange wincon/role thing)?

Town: Info about nightkills, possibly something to do if you have a useless role.

Also more likely to get attacked by the mafia, and if you have a powerful role, you have to choose whether to use it or waste the Lookout role that night.

Scum: Finding town power roles.

Also can fake results with next to no risk. Even if results are untrue, this is a bastard mod game and thus scum are just little balls of WIFOM waiting to explode.

Third party: Seeing what happens and siding with town or scum based on that.

Being watchman puts a target on you, but you can also hide to protect yourself. You do have a point about powerful roles, though, so (depending on specifics) I can see how some town players would not want to be the watchman.

Also, there is a large risk to faking some results as mafia watchman. While the mafia get info, they only see about 50% of the actions, so someone could have seen things happen that the watchman didn't.


TolyK:

TolyK- Seems particuraly wary of scum tactics. Slight town lean.

...
What.
How.
...
You got that in one post?
...
Mastahcheese seems particularly interested in seeing active and preceptive and all-around scumhunting town.
When really, he's buddying a person who hasn't posted ANYTHING of interest yet other than a thought that isn't even mentioned in his post.
...
So, can you please pick apart my posts and say where you got that? Not much I'm asking for here.

He wrote down his first impression and you're calling it premature. I don't see how he's scum or why he's buddying you more than anyone else that he thinks is town (upon reading, this is Caz). Why is he buddying and why isn't he "seeing active and preceptive and all-around scumhunting town"?


Thoughts on lookout: No one should claim what they would/will do. The best choice is someone where we don't have a good idea about what they will do because that minimizes the risk of scum messing things up (either killing the lookout or targeting someone else while the lookout hides). It's still 50/50, but if we're fairly sure that someone will do one or the other, the scum are probably also fairly sure.

Vivalas: What do you expect to get from questioning Comrade about what he would do if he was lookout?

Deus: It's an RVS vote.

[mastahcheese]

@People asking about my TolyK read.

The problem is that you can't tell the motive.
Scum could easily just have a mafiakill and other ability, and use the lookout to scout everything out.

Actually, the more I think of it, it's much more dangerous to have a scum lookout since they don't need to hide at night.

I got it from this post (and a couple others on the same subject nearby).
I get that he's actually trying to think things through of what would be advantageous to scum, and trying to avoid it.
I dunno. Feels town-ish to me.

Hmm.
No Watch

[Deus Asmoth]

DarkStar, I may have actually wanted Vivalas to answer the question I asked him himself.

[flabort]

Persus: I didn't say either of you was scummy for accusing eachother or voting or not voting. I said the amount of conversation was slightly suspicious this early on, like you were trying to make it clear you two weren't on the same team. Which may or may not be true.

As to objecting to your first question of the game; I thought it had already been answered by the time I saw it, not realizing that the person who it was asked to hadn't posted yet either.

And I've explained my logic for why I think a green vote can be used to pressure during RVS twice already. If you still don't understand, then I can't help you.

Vivalas I wasn't asking if you would hide or lookout, I was asking if you'd like to be voted for the lookout, to be able to hide or lookout. However, from your answer I can extend this to no you wouldn't want to be voted lookout because you'd only use it to hide.

Do you mean the one at the beginning of the game? I think it was rather eck for Scripten to attack Perseus for attacking Mastacheese.

That's called a chainsaw defense when that happens. However, I don't think that Scripten was Chainsawing; I think he was trying to distance himself from Persus, and vice versa, and the attack on Cheese was a convenient point to use.

Dues Asmoth Thank you for your reply.
No, my reason for voting an inactive play is just pressure to get them to answer, and to catch them off guard. Obviously an inactive lookout would be bad for the town, so if they're unable to answer the question and they get voted to lookout, then I'm pretty sure the scum would remove them from the equation for us.
However, the goal is not to vote an inactive person to lookout, it's to make them not inactive.

TheDarkStar Why are you answering Dues's question to Vivalas for him?

Mastahcheese I think I know why you chose to vote for No Watch, but do you care to explain?

[mastahcheese]

Mastahcheese I think I know why you chose to vote for No Watch, but do you care to explain?

Sure. One: I'm trying to see if we actually need someone to watch or not, because if we don't, that would simplify things.
Two: All the discussion over the lookout seems to me like having a lookout isn't really going to help us pretty much at all. At least from a town perspective. It seems like it could cause more WIFOM than anything helpful.
Why do you think so?

[flabort]

My thoughts were it's better for a gun not to exist then it to exist in the hands of your enemy.
I mean, lookout isn't a gun, but it's better to not have one than for the lookout to be scum, which would happen if we voted the wrong person.

So in order to not vote the wrong person and give scum the lookout, No Watch until we're reasonably sure.

[4maskwolf]

Not placing a lookout would be a violation of wartime protocol.

Unfortunate Accident Voting:
mastahcheese(1): TolyK
TheDarkStar(1): Caz
Scripten(1): Comrade Shamrock
Caz(0):
Deathsword(0):
Persus13(1): Scripten
Vivalas(0):
Tiruin(0):
Silthuri(0):
flabort(1): Persus13
TolyK(1): TheDarkStar
Comrade Shamrock(2): Vivalas, Deus Asmoth
Deus Asmoth(0):
No Lynch(0):
Not Voting: mastahcheese, Deathsword, Tiruin, Silthuri, flabort

Lookout Voting:
mastahcheese(0):
TheDarkStar(1): Deus Asmoth
Scripten(0):
Caz(1): Caz
Deathsword(0):
Persus13(1): Persus13
Vivalas(0):
Tiruin(0):
Silthuri(0):
flabort(0):
TolyK(0):
Comrade Shamrock(0):
Deus Asmoth(0):
Not Voting: mastahcheese, TheDarkStar, Scripten, Deathsword, Vivalas, Tiruin, Silthuri, flabort, TolyK, Comrade Shamrock

Both votecounts should be correct, although they may not be.  Please inform me of any errors or miscalculations.

Day will end at 9:00 AM PST on Wednesday December 31 2014.  Night will begin at that time.

A rules clarification: In case of a tie for lynching, the result will default to no lynch, except in the case of a tie between no lynch and one player, in which case the player will be lynched.  In case of a tie for lookout duty, one of the players with the most votes will be determined randomly.

[Vivalas]

My vote for Shamrock is purely RVS.

By asking him what he would do as lookout, I am attempting to discern his allignment by analysing his response, even though the lookout mechanic is rather vague, I feel my question is an appropriate question, which should be easy to answer.

[Vivalas]

TolyK: Your heated counterattack seems borderline OMGUS. Your motives are questionable. Such a heated defense would seem scummy, for a simple D1 read. Are you scum trying to RIA? Explain how mastacheese is buddying with Caz other than RVS vote.

[Teneb]

TolyK: Your heated counterattack seems borderline OMGUS.

Why?

Your motives are questionable.

Why?

Such a heated defense would seem scummy, for a simple D1 read.

Why?

Are you scum trying to RIA?

Tangential, but I don't think I've ever seem

Explain how mastacheese is buddying with Caz other than RVS vote.
[/

[Teneb]

Well, fuck. Pressed the post button by accident. Full post below

Mastahcheese:You neglected to answer this:

You seem to have missed that you could say you'd hide and then watch instead, though.

That would be lying. Why would you suggest this? It only encourages WIFOM.
If I asked you the same question, would you lie, and follow your own point?

No I wouldn't. Except your answer involved hypothetical scenarios, some in which you were scum. If you are ok with making hypothetical scenarios where you are scum, why are you uncomfortable to imagine ones where you lie, either as scum to deceive town or as town to preserve yourself? Even if you wouldn't actually do that.

However, I do agree that we should No Watch[/b]

Vivalas: First things first, please quote the post or point out the post number that you are responding to.

Ok, so let's recap what you did recently:

Let's be honest...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've read the guides, read through some games, and I'm the type that likes to read wikis completely before actually playing the game. I learn pretty quickly, but if ya wanna yell at me for beaking the "circle of mafia" then, I would understand. Other than that, I understand the game, although I didn't expect it to be this ruthless... Gah. Its a game of psychology pretty much, so I should be good at it

You claim that, despite being new to mafia, you've completely read wikis and such about it, thus making you quite informed about the game and how it works.

I'm gonna admit that I would hide if I were lookout so, sorry. No

I can't vote either for that matter since I am still trying to figure out who to trust.

Scum aren't gonna want people to see their first action of the game of course.

First you say you won't vote since you are trying to figure out who to trust... how exactly? By doing nothing?

Do you mean the one at the beginning of the game? I think it was rather eck for Scripten to attack Perseus for attacking Mastacheese.

What is even "eck". And why is it... "eck" for Scripten to do that?

But, despite whatever the fuck "eck" is (although I am assuming it is negative, somehow), you then do this:

Comrade Shamrock


Comrade Shamrock: If you were lookout would you hide?

Why do you do an RVS post clearly past RVS phase? Especially when you have a perfectly good lead with Scripten attacking Persus?

You even admit that it's RVS!

My vote for Shamrock is purely RVS.

By asking him what he would do as lookout, I am attempting to discern his allignment by analysing his response, even though the lookout mechanic is rather vague, I feel my question is an appropriate question, which should be easy to answer.

TolyK: Your heated counterattack seems borderline OMGUS.

Why?

Your motives are questionable.

Why?

Such a heated defense would seem scummy, for a simple D1 read.

Why?

Are you scum trying to RIA?

Tangential, but I don't think I've ever seen RIA used here.

[Teneb]

And I also got the code for the colours wrong. Marvelous.

[Persus13]

According to what 4maskwolf just said, No Watch is not a viable vote or option.

We have to choose someone.