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Author Topic: Cannabis Legalization Discussion  (Read 20993 times)

smjjames

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #210 on: November 24, 2014, 11:17:17 pm »

That wasn't entirely true. It has stimulant and depressant qualities.

That said, depressant/stimulant isn't enough to predict what a drug will do. Alcohol is a depressant and it makes you more violent.

That is because alcohol has the effect of loosening up your inhibitions giving you less reason not to clobber anyone.

Until you get pissed and angry drunk. Loosening up your inhibitions goes both ways.
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i2amroy

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #211 on: November 25, 2014, 03:49:08 am »

Edit: Okay, I'm arguing past you here. But what exactly is the system you're proposing? The couple of things you wrote sound like they would increase the amount of weed illegally in circulation while changing nothing about the flaws of the current (US) system, except maybe part of the smuggling issue.
And yeah, done with the whole "harm" discussion, we've pretty much exhausted that.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 03:50:51 am by i2amroy »
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Antsan

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #212 on: November 25, 2014, 05:00:33 am »

People who take drugs and thus might have valuable insights into their effects are discouraged from talking about their experiences. Note that the people who are most likely to talk about the negative aspects of taking drugs are most likely to be more ashamed and thus less likely to talk about it. People who have no experiences now have the option of listening to people who have no experiences (and thus seem unreliable sources, at least to many teenagers) or addicts who don't even try to have any insight into what they are doing.
Not even prohibition is needed for this.

The assumption that mind altering drugs are bad is... very bold. The only reason I can see this is the default stance is the war on drugs. Even religions condemning some drug use normally allow or even promote other drugs. They normally also provide certain rituals and rules with which the effects of the drug are supposed to be positive. As I already said I can attest to certain circumstances where certain drugs actually have very positive long term effects that are not easily achieved by other means.
There are psychologists who would very much like to use LSD for certain patients.

Prohibiting drug use is an intrusion into personal freedom.
Doing dangerous activities while under the influence of mind altering drugs is only natural.
Anything else is up to doctors and their patients, not to the law.

@i2amroy:
A closed facility is not a good idea for some drugs.
Otherwise I actually like your idea (although we probably have different ideas of how strict enforcement should be, but that's a whole 'nother topic). Throw in a certification for people as companions for friends for certain drugs for the use outside of the facility and I think it might be perfect.
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Helgoland

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2014, 05:16:50 am »

-snip-
Huh, sounds fairly reasonable. I see one problem though, and for the sake of convenience I'll take alcohol as an example: I don't drink purely to be drunk. I drink to enhance social situations, like a comfortable evening at a bar after work, a barbeque, a dinner with friends etc etc. I certainly wouldn't go to a facility to get drunk, simply because it's not the pure effects I'm after. I don't use illegal drugs, but I'm sure many of those, especially stuff like weed and MDMA, have similar problems.
Your approach would most likely work best for hallucinogens like LSD or some of the 2C-X series, provided the facility was large and 'friendly' enough. Most other stuff (and even those drugs!) would most likely be smuggled out to be consumed in a more comfortable setting. And heavy fines won't prevent that, as we're seeing right now.


What I could imagine would be drugs artificially made cheaper in those facilities. That would lead to less (not none) consumption on the outside because of simple economic reasons.
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LordBucket

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #214 on: November 25, 2014, 07:37:29 am »

my ideal system, spoilered for length due to detail

My ideal system, not spoilered because it's short and simple: no rules of any kind at all, and everybody is considerate and nice enough to not create problems.

DUIs could be completely eliminated overnight if people simply chose to not drink and drive. Murder and arson and rape and war could be completely eliminated overnight if people simply chose to not do those things. The vast majority of human problems could be solved overnight if people would simply choose to be kind and considerate of each other.

We don't need better laws. We need better people.

That might be idealistic, but you did say "ideal system." And some people are kind and considerate. There are people who arrange for, and people who offer to be, designated drivers when they go out to drink. There are people who choose to not murder and rape people. Quite a lot of them, actually. Punitive laws against murder and rape serve no purpose when people don't do those things.

Some people can go out drinking, know when to stop, know when to wait before driving, know when to sleep in the car if that's what they need to do to not have an accident. Those people are able to drink and not cause problems. And it's highly probable that there are people who could smoke crack if they chose to and also not create problems. Punitive measures for these activities serves no constructive purpose for people who don't create problems.

It's unfortunate that we seem to need laws restricting the freedoms of the people who don't create problems, in order to deal with the ones who do.

Neonivek

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #215 on: November 25, 2014, 07:39:18 am »

I am going to tell you... it took a LOT of willpower not to start typing out a parody of that vaccine thread in here.

It just fits too well.
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DJ

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #216 on: November 25, 2014, 07:40:56 am »

So taking away freedom is no harm at all?
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Neonivek

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #217 on: November 25, 2014, 07:58:31 am »

So taking away freedom is no harm at all?

Of the ability to use ONE drug which is non-essential...

I'd probably put its impact on your freedom on the same level as Jay Walking laws.
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DJ

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #218 on: November 25, 2014, 07:59:59 am »

Extra-marital sex is non-essential, and eliminating it would eliminate all the STDs, so why don't we just lock up everyone who engages in it?
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Neonivek

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #219 on: November 25, 2014, 08:06:17 am »

Extra-marital sex is non-essential, and eliminating it would eliminate all the STDs, so why don't we just lock up everyone who engages in it?

We already do have laws that do that.
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Frumple

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #220 on: November 25, 2014, 08:08:07 am »

... what? I don't recall anything but the most absolute backwards of hellholes having laws restricting consensual extramartial sex, especially to the point of imprisonment for violators.
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Neonivek

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #221 on: November 25, 2014, 08:08:47 am »

... what? I don't recall anything but the most absolute backwards of hellholes having laws restricting extramartial sex, especially to the point of imprisonment for violators.

Just go to divorce court or any court ruling over someone murdering another over adultery.

Just to name a few :P
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DJ

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #222 on: November 25, 2014, 08:10:47 am »

Adultery is not a synonym for extramarital sex, it's a subset of it.

*edit* Whelp, Wikipedia tells me I'm wrong :( What's the word then for any sort of sex outside of marriage?
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Frumple

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #223 on: November 25, 2014, 08:11:06 am »

... that is only tangentially, if that, related to your average one night stand, casual sexual relationship, or non-marital long-term relationship.

That's also not law against screwing outside of marriage. That's law against, y'know, freaking murder. Last I checked, adultery is perfectly legal. Grounds for a divorce, sure, and sometimes (bloody rarely) a mitigating issue in regards to murder, but you don't throw adulterers in jail anymore.
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Neonivek

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Re: Cannabis (sigh, name change) Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #224 on: November 25, 2014, 08:12:28 am »

... that is only tangentially, if that, related to your average one night stand, casual sexual relationship, or non-marital long-term relationship.

That's also not law against screwing outside of marriage. That's law against, y'know, freaking murder.

No I mean it is a mitigating factor. If the person adulterated against you, you get leeway.
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