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Author Topic: Cannabis Legalization Discussion  (Read 21243 times)

Sinistar

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #135 on: November 24, 2014, 03:39:46 pm »

Are we seriously applying PC to drug name in case the plant is going to be offended now?
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #136 on: November 24, 2014, 03:48:52 pm »

Sorry for the late (and therefore huge) post, sleep happened. :P I'm going to spoiler most of the whole post simply because it's almost a page long.
Spoiler: Responses (click to show/hide)
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #137 on: November 24, 2014, 03:50:06 pm »

So, are you for banning alcohol? We've definitely got data on that stuff.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:51:57 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #138 on: November 24, 2014, 03:50:33 pm »

So, are you for banning alcohol?
Yes, but I realize that it's something that probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2014, 03:52:57 pm »

And how about over-the-counter drugs that can be abused but are only done so by a statistically insignificant minority of users of the products, should those be banned as well? How about Mcdonalds for causing people to die of heart attacks with non-food?

Note: what YOU are saying is the slippery slope, one that takes away personal freedoms.

Preserving people's health does not equate to controlling their lives. It's called education, and it actually works.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 03:56:06 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #140 on: November 24, 2014, 03:59:04 pm »

And how about over-the-counter drugs that can be abused, should those be banned as well? How about Mcdonalds for causing people to die of heart attacks with non-food?
Over-the-counter drugs have significant medical benefits, so I'd be against them being banned, but I would favor making it harder to obtain any that have had their abuse linked with increased harm to others (without a valid medical reason).

McDonalds food I'm fine with, because you are specifically choosing to harm yourself in that instance. McDonalds isn't forcing you to buy their unhealthy food, you are choosing to. If you wanted you could probably quibble over something like "but what if McDonalds is the only food in the town?", but I'm not going to deal with negligible situations like that. Since it falls into the "harm to yourself" category instead of the "harm to others" category, I don't care about laws on it (as I noted in my post).

Edit, Small clarification: I'm fine with people offering opportunities for you to hurt yourself as long as you can't use those opportunities to harm others. I'd be fine with voluntary euthanasia, for example, as long as you were required to undergo a check that ensured that you didn't have any dependents, etc..
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:01:52 pm by i2amroy »
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #141 on: November 24, 2014, 04:03:58 pm »

McDonalds food I'm fine with, because you are specifically choosing to harm yourself in that instance. McDonalds isn't forcing you to buy their unhealthy food, you are choosing to.

Cannabis I'm fine with, because you are specifically choosing to harm yourself in that instance. Cannabis sellers aren't forcing you to buy their product, you are choosing to.

Also; you'd stop cigarette smokers from being parents? Thats nice.. Pretty good example of how that moral argument is a slippery slope.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:06:35 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #142 on: November 24, 2014, 04:06:21 pm »

The difference is that the only way bad food at McDonalds increases the chance of you harming others is if you were like a driver and had a heart attack while you were driving (which is a pretty negligible chance).

On the other hand cannabis has been shown to affect your perceptions and judgement in negative ways, which leads to a direct increase in your chance of performing risky behaviors that harm others (such as driving impaired or committing murder). The "affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways" is the key bit here.
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anzki4

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #143 on: November 24, 2014, 04:06:31 pm »

How about parents that force their children to eat McDonald's food? Or parents harming themselves, thus causing indirect harm to their children?

EDIT: Also, without defining what exactly you mean by "negative" effects, your definition is pretty meaningless.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:08:53 pm by anzki4 »
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #144 on: November 24, 2014, 04:07:12 pm »

On the other hand cannabis has been shown to affect your perceptions and judgement in negative ways, which leads to a direct increase in your chance of performing risky behaviors that harm others (such as driving impaired or committing murder). The "affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways" is the key bit here.

http://jamesclear.com/junk-food-science
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Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #145 on: November 24, 2014, 04:08:54 pm »

On the other hand cannabis has been shown to affect your perceptions and judgement in negative ways, which leads to a direct increase in your chance of performing risky behaviors that harm others (such as driving impaired or committing murder). The "affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways" is the key bit here.
http://jamesclear.com/junk-food-science
Okay, a bit of clarification. "Affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways that are known to increase your chances of harming others". I've been shortening that for brevity somewhat.

Edit because of weird forum backdating making random posts appear.

How about parents that force their children to eat McDonald's food? Or parents harming themselves, thus causing indirect harm to their children?
I'd be against it, but once again it's a matter of seeing things that are possible to change and ones that aren't. In approximately descending order my general goals are:
1) Prevent people from doing harm to others
2) Lower use of drugs that have been shown to increase your chances of harming others (or limit the way they can increase your chances)
3) Stop smaller things, like parents forcing McDonalds food on their children

Currently my "this is possible to accomplish" limit sits somewhere in the middle of 2, where some drugs are fightable (like marijuana) and others are not (like alcohol). That's way above the "McDonalds food" spot.

Also; you'd stop cigarette smokers from being parents? Thats nice.. Pretty good example of how that moral argument is a slippery slope.
No, I'd stop them from smoking around other people. They want to have kids and I'm fine with it. They want to smoke around their kids and I'd have a problem.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:15:06 pm by i2amroy »
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It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #146 on: November 24, 2014, 04:13:38 pm »

You can make it illegal to drive under the influence and also not violate people's freedom. :]

Quote
I'd be against it, but once again it's a matter of seeing things that are possible to change and ones that aren't. In approximately descending order my general goals are:
1) Prevent people from doing harm to others
2) Lower use of drugs that have been shown to increase your chances of harming others (or limit the way they can increase your chances)
3) Stop smaller things, like parents forcing McDonalds food on their children

Well, that's nice and all, but can you find me the numbers on assaults and deaths caused by cannabis?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 04:17:08 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
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anzki4

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #147 on: November 24, 2014, 04:14:20 pm »

Okay, a bit of clarification. "Affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways that are known to increase your chances of harming others". I've been shortening that for brevity somewhat.
Which includes crapton of things. For example caffeine causes nervousness, insomnia and irritability, all of which certainly increases your chances of harming others.
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i2amroy

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #148 on: November 24, 2014, 04:16:43 pm »

You can make it illegal to drive under the influence and also not violate people's freedom. :]
Ideally the prevention of something with laws will shift the majority to not use a thing, meaning we will be voluntarily limiting ourselves from things rather than being forced to.

Okay, a bit of clarification. "Affects your perceptions and judgement in negative ways that are known to increase your chances of harming others". I've been shortening that for brevity somewhat.
Which includes crapton of things. For example caffeine causes nervousness, insomnia and irritability, all of which certainly increases your chances of harming others.
Yep, and I don't really drink caffeine either. But coffee, like alcohol, falls under my "this is possible to accomplish" limit.
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It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

penguinofhonor

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Re: Marijuana Legalization Discussion: BE CIVIL!
« Reply #149 on: November 24, 2014, 04:18:18 pm »

Why is it preferable to ban drugs for their negative effects rather than educate people about their risks and try to ensure their safe use?
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