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[WealthyRadish]

I also live in a state with legalized recreational marijuana (Colorado), and there really haven't been any changes in usership. The only noticeable difference is that the part of town with all the liquorstores on the outskirts now has dispensaries too.

When I was in high school, before the laws legalizing it, if someone wanted marijuana, it was still stupid easy to get. But the vast majority of it likely came from Mexico, was of shitty quality, and contributed to funding the cartels down there that create so much misery and violence. The smuggling will no doubt continue for as long as it's price competitive, but at least there's another source for people now, and our schools are going to get some funding out of it.

Regardless of how an individual feels about the drug and its use, there is no practical reason not to legalize it, since the laws enforcing its ban are so ineffectual and expensive. If it were possible to keep it illegal without incarcerating half the country, then yeah, maybe there'd be some merit to encouraging a society that doesn't use substances like tobacco/alcohol/marijuana/prescription drugs in the first place, but that could happen without it being illegal anyway.

[Helgoland]

Did Neonivek seriously claim Aspirine was used recreationally?

Spoiler: Useful chart (click to show/hide)

A site with a lot of neutral (okay, pro-drug biased) information on all sorts of substances and, especially interesting for this thread, harm reduction.

Let me do a tangent: Why not legalize LSD?

[Sheb]

While physical harm for LSD is a non-issue, there are significant psychological risks.

[Parsely]

Stoners, unlike drunks, can actually be fun to be around without having to partake yourself.

[4maskwolf]

Did Neonivek seriously claim Aspirine was used recreationally?

Spoiler: Useful chart (click to show/hide)

A site with a lot of neutral (okay, pro-drug biased) information on all sorts of substances and, especially interesting for this thread, harm reduction.

Let me do a tangent: Why not legalize LSD?

Wow that chart took me back.  I saw that during my sophomore year health class.  That EXACT chart.  Huh.

Anyway, why not LSD?  I just did a quick search, and apparently there are no known cases of death from LSD overdose, or at least no documented ones.  There also doesn't appear to be any long-term physiological effects.  And I'm not sure of the source on this, but I've heard it actually doesn't cause chemical addictions in the user.

I think it was banned due to its association with a whole bunch of things which were disapproved of in the 60's, as well as the temporary impairment it causes.

[GavJ]

While physical harm for LSD is a non-issue, there are significant psychological risks.

I don't know what exactly that chart is counting, but if you jump off a building because you think the robotic spiders are going to eat you otherwise, that would be an issue of physical harm from LSD. Harm is not just direct physiological overdose, etc.

Although alcohol, for instance, still would have vastly more peripheral damage of that sort (via DUIs) than any other drug, so it doesn't change the overall argument.

[Sheb]

Yeah, but that's also because alcohol is much more common. If we consumed LSD the way we currently consume weed, we'd have way more case of LSD-related DUIs and car crashes.

[Frumple]

... would we?

[GavJ]

Yeah, but that's also because alcohol is much more common. If we consumed LSD the way we currently consume weed, we'd have way more case of LSD-related DUIs and car crashes.

As frumple said, according to whom? You need data to back this up. I.e. % of LSD users who die in DUI crashes or kill people, etc. per user, versus alcohol. The data might exist, but you can't just say stuff like this off the cuff.

It's entirely possible that people on LSD are so much higher that they end up not driving as often due to being too far beyond that. Or for marijuana, they're too sedentary and lazy feeling to bother trying to go anywhere as often as for alcohol. Or whatever. Lots of theoretical differences. That's why you need data.

[Sheb]

I wasn't clear, I just mean "more LSD-related crash than we have now", which seems logical enough that I don't feel the need for a source for that. My point is that we can't just look at alcohol related DUI incidents and compare them to LSD-related DUI incidents without correcting for the much larger percentage of the population using alcohol, like GavJ did.

[Neonivek]

[A reason it is illegal is smuggling]

? Making it legal would instantly eliminate all smuggling. Smuggling as an industry arises when things are overly regulated or illegal despite there still being a high enough demand. This is in fact one of the absolute best reasons to legalize marijuana -- stealing all the profits from the violent cartels who profit off of smuggling it.

Yep, there is no middleground.
You either support total government non-intervention in substances and care to the point where there is government mandated suicide booths.
OR you want a nanny state that makes eating KFC illegal.

Yes, actually, this is the valid argument. It's not that there "can be no middle ground" It's that if there is a middle ground, yet marijuana is illegal, then the "middle ground" is actually a "way the hell over in a tiny area on the left hand side" ground, and you have a police state.

Making it legal would increase smuggling as people use that country in order to sell drugs to others where it is illegal. It is why many dangerous drug cartels run in countries where the drug is perfectly legal.

Also... I am pretty sure Cannibis has a higher chance of killing you a single time... then eating KFC for lunch. Though I guess it depends what kills more people: People choking on KFC or people getting into car accidents because of weed.

"Did Neonivek seriously claim Aspirine was used recreationally?"

I did. Generally speaking you overdose on it while taking alcohol or doing weed.

Also why are people surprised that people use prescription and over the counter drugs recreationally. Its like being surprised people sometimes use dish soap as a lubricant to get rings off their fingers.

[WillowLuman]

Where the hell are smugglers going to take stuff to from the US? Canada? Already legal there.

[~Neri]

Generally mind altering drugs have a chance of impairing judgement.

It's quite possible for someone to not recognize one of those glass slidey door things is in the way and run straight through it while impaired.

I know a few people who did that.

Not pretty.

Lots of glass shards, scars, and general blood everywhere.

[Fniff]

That happens with alcohol, though.

[Neonivek]

That happens with alcohol, though.

But not after one beer.