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[Hellheart]

My PD >= 20 leader will be Basalt Queen

Great Olm PD should be friggin' hilarious.

[tompliss]

"minor" questions about the special points and PD rules :

How do we handle the PD unit numbers ? a pre-set cost (using gold+res) available per unit per PD point ?

How do we handle the PD commander cost ? Could I have a 490g/43r Dai Oni as normal 20PD commander ?

The rules specify "the starting army will consist of the Normal Scout and Normal Commander, with 250 gold of each of your two cheapest troop choices", but the special options state an option to "Change your starting army to a commander and two unit choices worth 500 gold each of your choice". So what are the maximum costs ? 500 total gold for both units ? what about the commander cost ?

About the "Change any commander into a unit" and "Change any unit into a commander", do we keep the previous unit/com ? If not, could it be possible, spending an extra point ?

[Hellheart]

"minor" questions about the special points and PD rules :

How do we handle the PD unit numbers ? a pre-set cost (using gold+res) available per unit per PD point ?

How do we handle the PD commander cost ? Could I have a 490g/43r Dai Oni as normal 20PD commander ?

The rules specify "the starting army will consist of the Normal Scout and Normal Commander, with 250 gold of each of your two cheapest troop choices", but the special options state an option to "Change your starting army to a commander and two unit choices worth 500 gold each of your choice". So what are the maximum costs ? 500 total gold for both units ? what about the commander cost ?

About the "Change any commander into a unit" and "Change any unit into a commander", do we keep the previous unit/com ? If not, could it be possible, spending an extra point ?

The 500 gold per unit is an artifact from when Alstar mistakenly stated that the starting army would be 500 gold of each of your two cheapest guys. It's 500 gold total, so 250 per unit.

Commander cost is irrelevant. Generally you're paying two points to either fix a poor starting army or to fix the commander that leads them. Putting a limit on the commander cost seems coarse.

Not sure about PD numbers, but I was under the impression that the PD commander could be anyone. 20 PD costs 210 gold so it's cheap for that sort of commander, but you can't use him to research and he can't move anywhere. It does make high PD more relevant than it would otherwise be, which I feel is kind of a good thing.

[Boksi]

#2461 - Statue of the Bloody Mother.

I'd like the lower PD troop to be Revelers(so it's maidens+revelers and fir bolg+ichtycentaurs) and the second commander to be a Basalt King. I'd like Fir Bolg rather than Revelers in the army, though. I don't have to spend points to pick between the two equally-priced choices, right?

Speaking of spending points:
3 - Make Jotun Skinshifters sacred.
1 - Make Jotun Skinshifters fort-recruit.
1 - Make Fir Bolg Warriors foreign-recruit.

I thought I could make the skinshifters foreign-rec, but apparently they only need 5 resources so they'd need 2 points.

Nation Name: Thule
Nation Epithet: Everyone gets assraped by N9B9 Jotun Skinshifters everywhere forever Lands of Dread
Nation Color: Some sort of dark green

[AlStar]

"minor" questions about the special points and PD rules :

How do we handle the PD unit numbers ? a pre-set cost (using gold+res) available per unit per PD point ?

How do we handle the PD commander cost ? Could I have a 490g/43r Dai Oni as normal 20PD commander ?

The rules specify "the starting army will consist of the Normal Scout and Normal Commander, with 250 gold of each of your two cheapest troop choices", but the special options state an option to "Change your starting army to a commander and two unit choices worth 500 gold each of your choice". So what are the maximum costs ? 500 total gold for both units ? what about the commander cost ?

About the "Change any commander into a unit" and "Change any unit into a commander", do we keep the previous unit/com ? If not, could it be possible, spending an extra point ?

Hellheart covered most of it, but I thought I'd chime in and mention that after asking some questions about PD values on desura, the consensus was "there doesn't really seem to be any kind of formula." So I'm just going to set everything to 1/point, which is somewhere between the default's 2 militia per point and 3 knights for 10 ten points.

Yeah, that should be 250 gold worth of starting troops there - I forgot to change the pick when I changed the default. You can take any commander. If you're paying 2 picks for it, who am I to say you can't start with whatever commander you like?

As for the last bit (moving troop <-> commander), I hadn't really thought of it - I guess that I'd rule that normally it would get moved, but I'm willing to allow you to keep both for an extra pick. (As a side note, while just now testing this, slayers as troops are somewhat awesome. Not quite 3 point pick awesome, but not bad at all. Note that their cost changed - slayers cost 70/10, while troop slayers are only 20/10. If you want me to look up what the unit costs of anything would be, just ask.)

[tompliss]

I choose the 2450 Horned One as my pretender. (and now, we see that all the nations involved will have a N9 bless -_- )
(and the 1316 Dai Oni as my 20PD commander)

And I have other questions :

What would become 1316, Dai Oni and 1174, Warrior Princess (in term of price, or if you notice something weird about them) ?
(of course, the Dai Oni unit would stay cap-only, but what about the StR part?)

And about the starting units, it's a 250g for the total of both units, or 250g of both ?
If 250g of both, could it be trumped a little (260g of abysian infantry and 240g of archers, as infantry come with a 20g cost) ?

By the way, as most of the units' description mention their nation, I'll try to post a fe lines for each unit in the next 10 hours

[akirilus]

Hellheart covered most of it, but I thought I'd chime in and mention that after asking some questions about PD values on desura, the consensus was "there doesn't really seem to be any kind of formula." So I'm just going to set everything to 1/point, which is somewhere between the default's 2 militia per point and 3 knights for 10 ten points.

Yeah, that should be 250 gold worth of starting troops there - I forgot to change the pick when I changed the default. You can take any commander. If you're paying 2 picks for it, who am I to say you can't start with whatever commander you like?

If I spend 2 picks to customize the starting army, can I start with 500g of the same unit instead of 250g of 2 different ones?

Also, as far as PD goes, just to be clear, at 1/point, if I pay to have a Fomorian Giant be my default PD unit choice, I get one giant per point of province defense?

[tompliss]

Also, as far as PD goes, just to be clear, at 1/point, if I pay to have a Fomorian Giant be my default PD unit choice, I get one giant per point of province defense?

I think we should set a normalized value (something like gold+ress = 50 per point).
Please note that it isn't "against you", as I'm very likely to pay to change my PD units to 45g+r units, if not simply for sacreds :/

[akirilus]

That's why I was asking - seemed a bit powerful to be able to do that (essentially making unbreakable PD for the investment of 210 gold), so I wanted to know exactly what I am getting before I spend perks on it.  Same with the army question.

[tompliss]

Little extra content :

Nation name : Kujin
Nation Epitet : Highway to hell

Home Site name : The Volcano of Skulls
(I'd like to know how many gems we're planning on)

Spoiler: unit renaming and description (click to show/hide)

Commanders :
428 Assassin -> Assassin : "Assassins are trained to pass unseen through enemy territory and to reach enemy commanders and kill them."
2253 Berytian Captain -> Kujinin Captain : "The captains of the Volcanic Empire proudly present their Kujinin legacy by coloring their armor and clothing with the dark red dye of their ancestors. Being an accomplished navigator is the common way to become a commander of the hellish armies."
1174 Warrior Priestess -> Kujinin Priestess : "The priestess of the Volcanic empire are the only one allowed the ride the sacred horses of Kujin. Their position in the hellish armies are easily understood after seeing one of them in battle."
2292 Hyena Clan Witch Doctor -> Volcanic Witch Doctor : "Those who can't fight are sent to fill the Volcano of Skulls. Some of them come back, with magic in their hands. The witch doctors have learn some of the magic secrets of the demons that lie at the bottom of the Volcano, and don't find it that sacred anymore."
1114 Augur -> Fire Watcher : "A few kujinins have watched the fire long enough to predict its movements, and some even mastered its magic. Those are called the Fire Watchers. They're at the base of every Kujinin city, ruling it from behind the scene."
323 Dwarven Smith -> Mountain Smith : "The smiths of the Volcanic Empire are the descendant of the dwarves who lived deep in the Volcano of Skulls, before the demons wiped all the the most useful. They are now part of the Kujinin society, forging weapons and armors for the hellish armies, as their leader spread the faith."
1316 Dai Oni -> Volcanic Demon : "The volcanic demons come directly from the Volcano of Skulls, to lead the Kujinin armies. They may not be the best when it comes to lead armies, but their sheer power renders it useless."


Units :
1165 Shield Maiden -> Kujinin Maiden : "In the volcanic Empire, most young women enter the army. The bravest become Kujinin Maidens, ambushing the enemy and going into the thick of the melee."
1162 Archer -> Kujinin Archer : "In the volcanic Empire, most young women enter the army. They usually are trained to use bows and blades, to defend their village against any attack."
1510 Hirdman -> Kujinin Guard : "Kujinin Guards are the elite Human soldiers of the Volcanic Empire. They swore to protect the demons and have been granted a longer life to do so. This gift also extend to their ability to defend themself, thanks to the glamour ability."
82 Abysian Infantry -> Hellish Infantry : "Some Kujinin children are born with a bit of the power of the Volcano of Skulls. From their youngest age, they are trained to fight for the Hellish empire, in heavy armor and with the bludgeonning weapons. The Hellish Infantries radiate a furnace-like heat and are impervious to all forms of fire."
1543 Burning One -> Hellish Destroyer : "Some Kujinin children are born with a bit of the power of the Volcano of Skulls. From their youngest age, they are trained to fight for the Hellish empire, in heavy armor and with the bludgeonning weapons. Few of them grow bigger than any Human, thanks to the blessed hellish power. The Hellish Destroyers are surrounded by flames and sacred in the eye of the Kujinin."

[Hellheart]

I thought I could make the skinshifters foreign-rec, but apparently they only need 5 resources so they'd need 2 points.

I got him to change the cost for under-5 resource troops. Your particular troops aren't an illustration of why it would be a bad thing...

No, my particular example was Sacred Foreign-Recruit Moose Riders. Slap on an F9D9A4-A9 bless, and you're running around with insane numbers of two-shots-per-turn archers with a double damage bless that still get two attacks with the same bless if you get close. If you tank your scales and go triple-major, they're also practically immune to counter-fire.

There's broken, and then there's strategies that would be almost impossible to counter. At least if they're fort-recruit the adjacent players can rush the bastard and prevent him from building that 2nd fort.

[AlStar]

Just have to make things difficult, don't you tompliss?  I was just planning on adding the units as-is. But fine, for you I can do some extra stuff.

As for starting army: I have absolutely no problem with you taking 500 gold of the same unit.

For PD: I'm willing to hear ideas on how to balance it. As I said, desura was no help. I suppose we could do 1/point of human-sized troops, .5/point of giants. Or perhaps <=25 gold 1/point, >25 .5/point. Or 10/gold cost per point. Again, open to ideas here.

[Hellheart]

Sidhe Warrior: 1 per 2 points
Jotun Javelinist: 1 per 2.5 points

Rest of <20 are fine at 2 per 3 points

>20

1 per 2 points:
Abysian Infantry
Centauride Warrior
Warrior of the Deep
Itchycentaur
Fir Bolg Warrior
Hirdman

1 per 2.5 points:
Tuatha Warrior
Warrior of the Five Elements
Great Olm

[Hellheart]

I don't know...with the higher level of army power in general from this game, and especially from mage power, maybe all of the above should be reduced. Something like:

2 per 3 points
Sidhe Warrior
Hirdman
Abysian Infantry
 
1 per 2 points:
Jotun Javelinist
Tuatha Warrior
Warrior of the Five Elements
Great Olm

Everything else at one per point.

Reasoning: Giants are giants, sacreds are sacreds. Glamour and high protection + heat aura cost an extra half-point. Everything else is more or less equal in power in sufficiently large numbers.

[Hellheart]

I have to admit, though, that at blessed 20% regen your Skinshifters could draw a lot more early hate than you might think.