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[AoshimaMichio]

Sometimes you don't want to burn the world just yet.

[NAV]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What should we do with the kinamps in a battlesuit's knuckles? Cause origin tech. Either remove them, or assume anyone who can afford a battlesuit is competent enough to handle some kinamps.

Similar deal with the multi-function gauntlet. Can we remove the kinamp and lower the price a token or two?

I'd say remove and replace with something else.

Maybe pimpcane metal knuckles?

How would the pimpcane knuckles work, and what skill would they use?

It would just be a metal knuckle plate made of pimpcane metal so it could be turned into spikes or blades or whatever you want. It would use exo, same as normal. Unless we automated it to take on a dozen or so shapes when activated and cycled through, We could do that.

So, what do you humans think we should do with a Battlesuit/Assaultsuit's knuckles? Since this really isn't my call to make. Pimpcane knuckles seems interesting.

Same thing for the gauntlet. Or different thing for gauntlet.

[renegadelobster]

Seems like an adequate replacement. Not as much potential !!FUN!! to be had, but they seem like they could be effective. Especially if the meat heads have the option to have them pre-programed with a dozen or so different blades/spikes/rotating cheese graters

[Radio Controlled]

I feel like force monoblades would make more sense. Exact same cost as kinamps as well. I mean, what shapes would you get out of pre-programmed knuckles? Blade (some types possible), spike, something blunt? Whereas forcefield blade can only do the blade (though you might be able to slap people with the flat side of the forcefield), but it can do it much, much better. And it also uses uncon, like the kinamps before it, while modifyable pimpcane knuckles would be exo (and I think, of the three weapon skills, exo meshes with something like a battlesuit the worst).

[syvarris]

@COUNCIL

So, again, what should I do about the Doctrine?  Just add it to the wiki and armory now, or make it an action in the M26 thread?  The latter would allow PW to verify it first.

Next, PW directed me to ask you guys about two things.  First, selling sod slaves:

EDIT: Sod Selling (Ignore these if you're too busy)

6.We've discussed selling sods before, multiple times.  You vary in your answers; You've said yes, you've said no, and you've said "Yes, but only as mission equipment".  Can people buy sods for themselves?

7.If so, can I profit from it?  Presumably we'd use the same 25% profit margin, like with tinkered equipment, yes?

8.Finally, can sods be specially customized?  Comrade_P wants to buy (presumably attractive) female sods.  Can we do that?

Hmm. I have problems with it in theory, I just don't want it to further unbalance shit, you know? Do me a favor, send RC a PM about it and we'll talk. I don't mind it in theory, I just wonder how to do it effectively.

Second, an aux program which pretty much replaces dex and str rolls with aux rolls, assuming you're not doing something weird and your body is undamaged:

4.A long time ago, back during the boarding mission, I wrote a program.  To sum it up, it was supposed to take a library of different movements, mostly combat-oriented, and allow the user to make their robobody/exoskeleton enact those movements (possibly with minor on-the-fly adjustments).  The in-game effect would be to replace strength and dexterity rolls with AUX rolls, as long as the user's body was undamaged and the desired movements were in the library.  IIRC, you said it was fine and I successfully completed the program, but I never tested it.  I'd like to do so now, but using a robosod's body.  Is the program effective?

It should be. Maybe. Unless the council screams at me in a few minutes.

More info on the program here.

Are either or both of these okay?


@New Assaultsuit fist weapons
I think I'd prefer pimpcane knuckles which are controlled via AUX.  Forceblades are explosive, which isn't a trait you want on a hand-mounted weapon.  If we specifically make sure the forceblade is tougher than the armor, but not explosive emough to damage anything aside from the arm, maybe then.  That way, no blow will detonate it, unless it would have destroyed the hand anyway.

A serious consideration would be to mount a modified solid light matter generator to all assaultsuits, trading the kinamps and battlesuit plate layer.  The SLMG would be automated so that it's only able to create new armor, and some melee weapons.  Full milnoplate costs the same amount as the SLMG, so it's presumably an okay trade, plus the device is neutered.  We'd have to check with PW first though, to make sure the SLMG can be automated like that; We wouldn't want assaultsuits to require uncon.

[Radio Controlled]

Yeah, I'd doublecheck doctrine with pw to be extra doubly sure, but it should work out. Then just plop it into the armory (though Nik has that thing where he wants people to pass it by him as the responsible overseer, but Maurice is somewhat predisposed, so... Yeah).

[Nikitian]

I'm currently fully available for Armory inclusion paper-stamping. It might be OOC-ish, but then again, I might not be for long in this office, and I do believe in the importance of red tape this final Seal of Approval.

So what do you want approved, Doctrine?.. Hmmm, could you explain the intended battlefield employment for this weapon? I don't doubt it's effectiveness, but I'm slightly hesitant in regards to its price. (Thus I would hope that the original creator could dispel those doubts.)

Are there any other items pending approval? Come at me while I'm here.

(Oh, and on the matter of "secret functions": The first rule of secret functions cl-...

I do think that they should not be mentioned at all, not on the wiki, not in this thread, not perhaps even to the Council - they're players as well, aren't they? So I can give two variants: either as a secret deal with Piecewise (after all, mysteries and sense of discovery is just as important for him to maintain as it is for us to experience), or as an open deal with Piecewise where he throws in, say, bells and whistles for the total of 10-20% of the item's cost  - at no extra cost added, but in complete secrecy and randomised/arbitrarily decided (i.e. the creator cannot count on those features being in there). The former approach can be IC-explained as the "secrets of the trade", the latter - that the Hephaestus mass-production inevitably requires some refinements and changes upon the initial Tinkered prototype, which are brought in by the engineers/Aresteve. Personally, I'd vouch for the latter approach, as it is more random and interesting, but former is also acceptable (as long as "secret features" stay in the zero-price-increase zone - but it might require some haggling with Piecewise, and still leaves at least one player "in the know" , so maybe it's slightly worse). )

[Radio Controlled]

Syv, council is going over your stuff, by the way. Doing the aux thing first. More news as it develops.

[tryrar]

Didn't want to bug yah RC, but has the council made any more progress on the Valkyrie? Remember PW did say that we can go ahead and replace ALL our shuttles with it...

[Radio Controlled]

We already finished that, remember? A while back you asked, I told you we needed armor info. You provided, then we told you it was ok and that you just needed to agree with pw how much of our current shuttle fleet it was going to replace (for the record, I'd suggest keeping some normal shuttles around, just in case). You also asked for a token price, but pw confirmed that a normal shuttle is already really, really expensive, so this one with all the added crap would honestly be too expensive to afford for anyone, so we never gave it a real token value.

[tryrar]

We already finished that, remember? A while back you asked, I told you we needed armor info. You provided, then we told you it was ok and that you just needed to agree with pw how much of our current shuttle fleet it was going to replace (for the record, I'd suggest keeping some normal shuttles around, just in case). You also asked for a token price, but pw confirmed that a normal shuttle is already really, really expensive, so this one with all the added crap would honestly be too expensive to afford for anyone, so we never gave it a real token value.

Ah, right. So what's left then? Just Nik giving the rubberstamp?

[Radio Controlled]

Eeyup, even though I frown (like an old angry man yelling at kids on his lawn) ever so slightly upon the ooc-but-sorta-ic thing that's going on there, once you have that you're good. No wait, you also need a full write-up we can copypaste into the wiki somewhere so we don't forget what it has.

[Egan_BW]

Um, didn't PW abolish the whole hep-approving thing when he made the system where people get tokens for their designs? Or is my memory shitty?

[syvarris]

I decided to let the Doctrine have full-auto by default.  Now you can piss away your ammo at unprecedented rates!

@Nik
Well, here's my original writeup for the Doctrine, modified slightly to account for council changes.

Spoiler: Armory Entry (click to show/hide)

10 | 'Doctrine' Shard Autocannon
    Description: The midpoint between the Testament and the Piezoelectric Shard Launcher, this weapon is optimized for use against vehicles and other moderately armored targets.  While less damaging than the full-size PSL, the Doctrine is much more efficient against targets softer than battlesuits.
    Ammo: Tank. 18 shards worth of fluid. 1 token per tank. Can use a PSL tank, which contains 81 shards worth of fluid and costs 4 tokens.
    Stat Restriction: exoskeleton, strength +1
   Designed by syvarris

Spoiler: Mechanical Explanation (click to show/hide)

Fires a shard 10x the volume of a Testament shard, or 1/2.7x the volume of a PSL shard.  Can fire in semiauto, 3-round volley, or automatic* modes.

Damage: Single shards should probably be lethal to milnoplate level armor and below.  (Testament 9-volley is only lethal to milnoplate on a very good shot, and fires 90% of the mass in a stream.  This fires more in one shard.)

3-Volley should probably be somewhat weaker than a PSL shard.  It's firing more mass, but in a stream rather than one cohesive shard.  PSLs can one-hit battlesuits on a good shot, so hopefully this can two shot them, if both shots are good.

Automatic, is, as always, stupid and should not be used unless this is vehicle mounted.  There's nothing to stop someone from doing so, though.

Spoiler: My intentions with this (click to show/hide)

My intention with this is mostly to just make the PSL more efficient.  The PSL is only efficient (for a shard weapon) against battlesuit-tier enemies, and even then it could stand to be a little larger.  Most of the enemies targeted by a PSL are far weaker than that, so you end up wasting ammo most of the time.

The Doctrine is intended to be more ammo efficient against moderately armored targets, and still be capable of killing battlesuits (although with less efficiency than a PSL).

As far as role... Well, it's intended to be a semi-replacement for the PSL.  The PSL is overkill for the vast majority of targets that we fight, even bosses.  Synthflesh warriors, arbiters, protectorates--all of them are much softer than a battlesuit, and their primary difficulty comes from being difficult to hit at all.  Thus, having more shots (which are still large enough to be lethal) seems like a good tradeoff.  Plus, on the rare occasions where we do encounter heavy targets, the Doctrine is still capable of dealing with them, albeit less effectively.

The PSL does have a use; it's better against extremely tough targets, like an Avatar of War.  I actually think it would be a good idea to replace the PSL with a 15 token variant, which easily one-shots battlesuits, and is more efficient against super heavy enemies.  The only problem with that is that we can't actually remove the PSL from the armory, so there would be too much redundancy.  Also, it would be very expensive for a weapon that's not very useful most of the time, much like the HGC.

Lastly, just to stave off the inevitable responses about how we can't predict the field effectiveness... Yes, this is all according to probably maybes, rather than guaranteed truths.  The Doctrine could very well end up being a worse weapon than the blifle.  I just hope it won't.

[Radio Controlled]

After deliberations, the council thinks that allowing to substitute dex or str rolls by aux ones is not a good idea in terms of game balance. Several reasons were given, among those that allowing stats to replace each other leads to some stats becoming too powerful. Aux in general is already a powerful stat, rolled pretty often and needed to pilot high-end suits, so it probably does not need a boost. True, con rolls can be substituted by aux, but for that one needs to buy specialized hardware, next to hardpoints having other drawbacks (eg no swapping guns on the fly easily).

Someone brought up the AM's steady blade system as an example of 'replacing' rolls (or even circumventing them) that's less problematic. Here, the big drawback is that you are very much at the gm's mercy once you use it (more so than usual, so to speak) and loose control for a while (and the program specifies that it foregoes defense in favor of offense, so even if things go right you can end up in pieces), so there are real and tangible downsides to using it as opposed to just replacing roll x by roll y.

Any comments or other questions on this? If not, we'll move on to the sod issue.