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[Corsair]

I agree with this completely especially the earnings part as sometimes people will invent things that they have no desire to use themselves and just think would be cool so being able to earn a percentage is pretty good and is an incentive. Also I predict speech becoming a useful stat now with people attempting to hawk their wares like door to door salesmen, and it gives people who don't particularly want to go on a mission to try and earn some dosh.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I, on the other hand, foresee that between the Council being full of metaphorical realism sharks, and apparently our future effectiveness being dependent on building things that sell, the future of our Armory is going to be fairly gray. Or brown and bloom, as it were.

Anton says "Feh. I guess I'll just be down in the lab actually trying to make stuff that works, while all you marketing-driven kids up here try to screw over everyone, yourselves included, trying to make stuff that sells. Suit yourselves."

[Empiricist]

I'm personally more concerned about the concept of balance as a whole in this game. I was under the impression that our job is to tip the scales as far into our own favor as possible, and if it doesn't conform to previous pricing patterns, then so be it, because the UWM would still be doing R&D for their own military and that balance would occur out of Red Queen Hypothesis (we make better or cheaper gear, so too does the UWM, so even though the quality of the equipment increases, there is no relative gain) more than us overpricing new equipment that we could mass produce relatively cheaply if necessary.

[Kriellya]

Seems good. 3 questions immediately come to mind.

1) Does this apply retroactively? (things living characters have already developed will be 'credited' in the armory and will be given tokens if someone buys it from now on)

2) Does the creator get a 25% discount? (i.e: when someone buys it, the creator gets 25%. If the creator buys it, do they functionally get a 25% discount?)

3) What precisely qualifies as a developed item? For example, referencing some of my discussions with you, would Skylar's light-robolimb count, but not the ordinary limbs/organs I asked the AM about?

[Nikitian]

04:33:56 <Nikitian> The day delegating Tinker to the Council happens will probably be the day I retire from my Heph position altogether
04:34:04 <Nikitian> So please, please, no

Okay, that inescapable existential dread thing IC? It was lousy by comparison. It had a way out.

... Funny thing, I don't actually care about the details or have any questions.

[Xantalos]

Important PSA from IRC!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

01:04   Piecewise   Xan is now in charge of pricing
01:04   Piecewise   *PIECEWISE AWAY*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxrcZ_5gDlE

[Hapah]

Important PSA from IRC!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

01:04   Piecewise   Xan is now in charge of pricing
01:04   Piecewise   *PIECEWISE AWAY*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxrcZ_5gDlE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAf0QnLFS7Q

[Xantalos]

So we're switching to Zimbabwe token economy now. Everyone gets 50,000 tokens, but each token only is worth 0.0001 of a token as it is now.
Of course that's just the start. I want inflation to be so high that we can build spaceships out of the fucking things.
Prices will adjust accordingly, starting at around 10k for a hand laser. Hopefully with enough money printing we can get into the low billions in the next few missions.

Incidentally, token armor. It should be a thing.

[Nikitian]

So we're switching to Zimbabwe token economy now. Everyone gets 50,000 tokens, but each token only is worth 0.0001 of a token as it is now.
Of course that's just the start. I want inflation to be so high that we can build spaceships out of the fucking things.
Prices will adjust accordingly, starting at around 10k for a hand laser. Hopefully with enough money printing we can get into the low billions in the next few missions.

Incidentally, token armor. It should be a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxrcZ_5gDlE

Suddenly, that laugh makes far more sense!
(... It's haunting me now. )

[Hapah]

Xan's gonna teach everyone on Heph the pecking order!

[Xantalos]

Oh if it wasn't an IRC joke and I actually got given authority that plan's rolling ahead with gusto :3

I wish to build planets out of tokens.

[Nikitian]

Okay, in my capacity as Deputy Admin of Engineering, I have to make this statement:

Even though the current prototype system is being abolished, the Admin of Engineering reserves the right of final judgement on admittance of a design to the armory list, after the GM's and the Council's approval.
This is the sacred right that I inherited from my predecessor, and this is how I shall pass it on (return to him) when the time comes.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Some more fallout of the IRC session:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[30.06.15 07:37:33] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> Can I carry old battlesuit variants over onto the assaultsuit?
[30.06.15 07:37:35] <Egan_BW>   so how much *should* 2PEW cost?
[30.06.15 07:37:38] <Parisbre56>   
[30.06.15 07:38:11] <syvarris>   @Egan That question is so reliant on other variables that are questionable and unknown that it cannot be answered fairly.
[30.06.15 07:39:29] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> Actually, I'll give you the kinda-fair cliffnotes.  Radio/Council(?) thinks that old BS variants are OP, and he has a point.  The long-range suit has a gun that is 'bigger than a LESHO' so it probably costs at least 19 tokens--MORE than the battlesuit itself.
[30.06.15 07:39:39] <Egan_BW>   maybe have 2PEW as an optional weapon loadout for AoW?
[30.06.15 07:39:54] <Piecewise>   I dunno sy, we'd have to look at it on a suit by suit basis, but I think for most of them you could.
[30.06.15 07:40:15] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> Because of this, he wants to 'start fresh' with the assaultsuit, and completely remove old variants so that new ones will be balanced.
[30.06.15 07:40:25] <Piecewise>   Hmmm thats fair
[30.06.15 07:40:26] <Egan_BW>   rather than as an AS
[30.06.15 07:40:52] <Piecewise>   THough  honestly it that cannon will see so little use I don't mind it
[30.06.15 07:41:09] <Piecewise>   But we can phase out the BS and phase in the AS
[30.06.15 07:41:42] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> The whole argument over whether or not the 2PEW is balanced kinda hinges on this point.  Our lower-bound for production price on 2PEWs is eight tokens (Nik's estimate), and the upper bound is 20.  If the long-range one exists, than 2PEW is balanced without a doubt.
[30.06.15 07:41:43] <Parisbre56>   Yeah, it's hard to find targets that actually need to be hit by something as big as Toaster's gun
[30.06.15 07:42:21] <Egan_BW>   let alone two of them
[30.06.15 07:42:56] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> But if it doesn't exist, it's a lot more fuzzy.  It gets into the realm of iffy feels.  I think I'd actually agree with the council that the 2PEW is similarly powered to the Long-range, balance wise.
[30.06.15 07:43:35] <syvarris>   <PIECEWISE> So.... basically the question is "Can I make an assaultsuit variant with the same gun as the long-range BS?"
[30.06.15 07:43:38] <Egan_BW>   could sell AS variants as 5-10 Token upgrades to Base model.
[30.06.15 07:44:08] <syvarris>   We could do that, Egan.  I'm with Nik, in that I like the consistency in price, but it would allow more freedom.
[30.06.15 07:44:55] <syvarris>   It would also start getting into Dev's concern that Heph could just make twenty package deals or so, but thats easy enough to avoid; Just say there can only be five or so variants.
[30.06.15 07:45:23] <Egan_BW>   so Assaultsuit is 15 Token and Variants are 20-25 Token
[30.06.15 07:47:41] <Piecewise>   Hmmm
[30.06.15 07:47:58] <Piecewise>   Exactly how did an assault suit and 2 pews end up as 8 tokens?
[30.06.15 07:49:30] <syvarris>   Ohnonono!  I mispoke.
[30.06.15 07:50:12] <syvarris>   The 2PEW's production price, completely ignoring the rest of the suit, would be 8 tokens.  I.E. the gun parts that need to be manufactured seperately.
[30.06.15 07:50:41] <syvarris>   For either range, the in-game price would be 15 tokens, but it's arguing about whether that even makes sense.
[30.06.15 07:51:48] <syvarris>   The concept is that most of the cost of the PEWs is in supporting hardware which can be replaced by alreaady-existing parts of the suit.  Hexsand can be used as a heatsink, the generator/capacitors can supply power.
[30.06.15 07:52:34] <Parisbre56>   Hehe, I just got an idea for an exploit. Design an item. Then buy that item. Receive a discount as a result. With low enough price, you can keep buying until piecewise throws you out of an airlock.
[30.06.15 07:53:31] <Egan_BW>   design a 1-Token thingy?
[30.06.15 07:53:51] <Piecewise>   Hmmm
[30.06.15 07:53:52] <Egan_BW>   get 25%, rounded up
[30.06.15 07:53:52] <syvarris>   ...But you only get paid 50% back, so you're losing 75% of the cost every time?  Unless you're reselling the item... which at best results in gaining the exact amount of money that you would have if the other person bought it?
[30.06.15 07:54:17] <syvarris>   That could work, Egan.  I think PW would stop it in short order, though.
[30.06.15 07:54:20] <Piecewise>   We might need to expand the token scale here....
[30.06.15 07:54:38] <Piecewise>   Having to make everything fit in between 1-20 tokens is kinda hard
[30.06.15 07:54:42] <syvarris>   We should really just get paid fractional tokens rather than rounding.
[30.06.15 07:55:01] <Egan_BW>   start making cents
[30.06.15 07:55:03] <Parisbre56>   Will we get payed more tokens? If yes, I'm for it. Tokencents sound good too.
[30.06.15 07:55:20] <Egan_BW>   ARMcents
[30.06.15 07:55:37] <Parisbre56>   Fingers>
[30.06.15 07:55:38] <Parisbre56>   ?
[30.06.15 07:55:45] <Egan_BW>   someone else come up with a pun for this
[30.06.15 07:55:57] <Egan_BW>   Fingers maybe
[30.06.15 07:56:16] <Egan_BW>   finger>Hand>ARM
[30.06.15 07:56:55] <Parisbre56>   "I paid an ARM for this suit!" "Don't you mean an ARM and a leg?" "No, just an ARM and 2 fingers"
[30.06.15 07:56:59] <syvarris>   Fractional pay wouldn't increase our pay; it would lower it.  If someone bought Sean's Specktr, Sean would get 1.25 tokens, rather than the 2 with PW's current system.
[30.06.15 07:57:16] <syvarris>   "I kept the other three as souvenirs.  Wanna see?"
[30.06.15 07:57:42] <Parisbre56>   Well, piecewise does like cutting our limbs...
[30.06.15 07:57:56] <syvarris>   Heh.  Five-finger discount.
[30.06.15 07:58:55] <Egan_BW>   finger is one-fifth of a hand, ARM is a separate Scale
[30.06.15 07:59:13] <Egan_BW>   Pay in ARM for heavy stuff
[30.06.15 07:59:21] <Egan_BW>   like Battlesuit
[30.06.15 07:59:44] <syvarris>   Five fingers to an arm, four arms to a Ji- I mean token.
[30.06.15 07:59:45] <Egan_BW>   hand is current Token value
[30.06.15 08:00:53] <syvarris>   That way, an arm=.25 tokens (what would actually be happening, since we get paid 25% of a token), and finger would be 0.05.  Discounting by an arm is a five finger discount.
[30.06.15 08:01:02] <Egan_BW>   ARM is only paid by Steve for doing actually good things on mission
[30.06.15 08:01:46] <Egan_BW>   so supply is limited
[30.06.15 08:02:12] <syvarris>   I think having seperate types of currency would be a poor idea.
[30.06.15 08:03:21] <syvarris>   Piiieeecwiiiise!  Are you going to respond?  If you're just busy thinking, we could help!
[30.06.15 08:03:29] <Parisbre56>   Oh, PIECEWISE, I just thought of something! Do I have any IC justification for doing what I'm doing? Did I get an idea, propose it to Heph and got a cryptic message telling me to bring a volunteer to the infirmary as a result? Or is it merely divine inspiration/Emar-i inspiring me/a strange/fell mood?
[30.06.15 08:04:15] <Piecewise>   I've got several people talking at me Sy
[30.06.15 08:04:16] <Parisbre56>   Or can I make up whatever stasis-dementia delusion I want?
[30.06.15 08:04:17] <Piecewise>   SOrry
[30.06.15 08:04:34] <Egan_BW>   Think of ARM as a kinda Metal
[30.06.15 08:05:06] <syvarris>   ...Council?  Why can't they join the IRC under psuedonyms?  "Ominous Councilman 1/2/3"
[30.06.15 08:05:17] <Piecewise>   Hmm Paris, any of those sound like viable reasons. You can assume whichever one you perfer, honestly
[30.06.15 08:05:25] <Parisbre56>   Cigarette smoking man
[30.06.15 08:05:30] <Parisbre56>   Cool thanks
[30.06.15 08:05:50] <Devastator>   Hey Syv.
[30.06.15 08:05:53] <Devastator>   may I apologize?
[30.06.15 08:06:00] <Egan_BW>   never
[30.06.15 08:06:04] <Parisbre56>   Oh dear, the sun has risen. Now I really need to sleep. Goodbye everyone.
[30.06.15 08:06:33] <syvarris>   Goodbye, Paris!
[30.06.15 08:06:33] *   Parisbre56 has quit (Quit: Goodbye)
[30.06.15 08:06:38] <syvarris>   @Dev Apologize?
[30.06.15 08:07:07] <Piecewise>   Hmm so the problem here is that we want to get rid of the op BS variants, instate the AS, and work on varients for it. But we have a question of price.
[30.06.15 08:08:13] <Piecewise>   Hmm.
[30.06.15 08:08:43] <Devastator>   for sticking my head in your character's design.
[30.06.15 08:08:52] <Devastator>   that's just not right.
[30.06.15 08:10:22] <Piecewise>   Well, for balancing sake the assault suit should probably be the same price as a normal BS
[30.06.15 08:11:09] <syvarris>   Well, sure.  I accept your apology.
[30.06.15 08:11:22] <Piecewise>   This is a bit hard to guess...have to factor in changes in balance...
[30.06.15 08:11:53] <Piecewise>   Why is AS 5 tokens cheaper then the BS?
[30.06.15 08:12:01] <syvarris>   I'm sorry for responding so poorly.  I was being deliberately inciteful, which is worse.  You weren't really the bad person there, I don't think.
[30.06.15 08:12:09] <Piecewise>   Just because those are the prices you got out of me?
[30.06.15 08:12:22] <Devastator>   You weren't responding poorly at all.
[30.06.15 08:12:33] <Devastator>   I was expecting you to rightly tell me to f*** off.
[30.06.15 08:12:34] <SeanMirrsen>   I thought that was because the BS also got cheapened, to expand the range of prices between the BS and the AoW.
[30.06.15 08:12:34] <Egan_BW>   you changed BS price to 15
[30.06.15 08:12:43] <SeanMirrsen>   And good morning.
[30.06.15 08:12:46] <syvarris>   AS is equal in cost to the BS?
[30.06.15 08:12:53] <Devastator>   I didn't say what I wanted to say and was just douching it up.
[30.06.15 08:13:01] <Egan_BW>   AS is 15 AFAK
[30.06.15 08:13:18] <syvarris>   It's always been meant to cost the same.  Literally every step of the design was done with that as the priority.
[30.06.15 08:13:46] <Piecewise>   Did I?
[30.06.15 08:13:47] <Piecewise>   Hm
[30.06.15 08:14:00] <Egan_BW>   as part of the new system
[30.06.15 08:14:29] <syvarris>   Yeah, the BS went down to 15 tokens from 20, because it had a requirement of +2 AUX.  That's what I was told.
[30.06.15 08:14:29] <Egan_BW>   and gave it +2 Aux requirement
[30.06.15 08:15:02] <Piecewise>   Mhm
[30.06.15 08:15:43] <Nikitian>   Just a thought: why not add requirements to certain 'more OP' variants of Battlesuits?
[30.06.15 08:16:01] <syvarris>   @Dev Well, heh, I guess we both see ourselves as worse than the other?  I don't have any hard feelings, at least.  We both made mistakes, and both feel guilty.  You're certainly forgiven in any case
[30.06.15 08:16:02] <Nikitian>   That would allow for different levels of usefulness, yet also for the same cost
[30.06.15 08:16:32] <Nikitian>   (No, I don't want to participate in this; this is just a semi-random idea I wanted to throw in)
[30.06.15 08:16:41] <Devastator>   okay, well, thanks.
[30.06.15 08:16:50] <Devastator>   Heh.
[30.06.15 08:16:57] <SeanMirrsen>   I'm not really sure that higher requirements could compensate for the sort of price gap that is being the problem here.
[30.06.15 08:17:31] <syvarris>   @Nik I don't see that working well.  For CON-centric suits, skills aside from CON wouldn't really make sense.  And any buyer is probably gonna have at least +2 con, likely more.
[30.06.15 08:17:50] <SeanMirrsen>   Especially since higher stat requirements don't mean that you're not getting the usual benefits of said higher stats.
[30.06.15 08:18:21] <SeanMirrsen>   I.e. a user with +2 con shooting a +2 con weapon does not shoot as if he had 0 con.
[30.06.15 08:18:23] <Piecewise>   Hmmm
[30.06.15 08:18:24] <Piecewise>   Hmm
[30.06.15 08:18:52] <Devastator>   I don't think things should work that way, though.
[30.06.15 08:18:56] <syvarris>   Maybe the suits should just go back to costing 20 tokens?
[30.06.15 08:19:02] <Devastator>   give you the benefits, you paid the money for them already.
[30.06.15 08:19:03] <Nikitian>   Yeah, but +2 Con requirement is still a +2 Con requirement; it is more than just +2 Aux and differentiates variants
[30.06.15 08:19:44] <Nikitian>   (again, this is just a thought, I really don't want to dive in and fanatically defend this idea)
[30.06.15 08:21:00] <syvarris>   Who would buy a CON suit when they don't have CON?
[30.06.15 08:21:16] <Nikitian>   Don't know? But does it matter?
[30.06.15 08:21:29] <Nikitian>   As in, additional requirement is additional requirement
[30.06.15 08:21:49] <Nikitian>   Or you could up it to +3 Con if you still think that way (+3 is rarer)
[30.06.15 08:22:25] <Nikitian>   Or maybe altogether throw in a bit of Gen Knowledge for goodness's sake
[30.06.15 08:22:26] <Egan_BW>   I think the point is, anyone who wants a gun-battlesuit has +2 con anyway
[30.06.15 08:22:54] <Piecewise>   How much does a pew cost normally?
[30.06.15 08:23:09] <Piecewise>   DId we ever get a single cost for them?
[30.06.15 08:23:23] <Piecewise>   Failing that, how much does a HEP cost again?
[30.06.15 08:23:31] <Nikitian>   HEP costs 9
[30.06.15 08:23:37] <Nikitian>   That I remember
[30.06.15 08:23:43] <syvarris>   ...Yes?  If it isn't actually a limitation, it isn't a cut to power, which would lower token cost, because tokens represent power.  +2 aux gives a discount because it means con/exo/uncon people need to multiclass (cutting their power), and it helps AUX people, who are arguably underpowered.
[30.06.15 08:23:58] <syvarris>   Yeah, gimme a moment...
[30.06.15 08:24:39] <SeanMirrsen>   The PEW cost was given as 12-15, pending results of field testing.
[30.06.15 08:25:18] <Egan_BW>   seems a bit high to me
[30.06.15 08:25:18] <Nikitian>   Well, in that case, Gen Know can certainly work, because it can be reasoned as "we don't give expensive toys to people who don't know how to operate them"
[30.06.15 08:25:35] <Nikitian>   (very un-HMRC-like, but then again, we're ARM now!)
[30.06.15 08:25:39] <SeanMirrsen>   Given its relatively subpar actual performance, and that even in a situation when encounters were sufficiently apart to allow recharging, I'd say the lower bound of that price would be more appropriate.
[30.06.15 08:25:57] <Egan_BW>   I mean, PSL is 13
[30.06.15 08:26:24] <syvarris>   And PSL is generally far better than the PEW.  But then again, the PSL is the best gun we have.
[30.06.15 08:26:37] <syvarris>   OH GOD YOU AREN'T GOING TO NERF THE PSL ARE YOU? D:
[30.06.15 08:27:01] <Egan_BW>   and Raduga is 11
[30.06.15 08:27:14] <Piecewise>   All guns are now nerf bats
[30.06.15 08:27:30] <Egan_BW>   yes
[30.06.15 08:27:44] <Egan_BW>   as Exo user, I approve
[30.06.15 08:28:02] <Egan_BW>   it's what they were anyway
[30.06.15 08:28:06] <syvarris>   ...Are we allowed to make them project forcefields?  Nerf-fields would probably be pretty good.
[30.06.15 08:28:15] <Egan_BW>   compared to Amps
[30.06.15 08:28:25] <Piecewise>   And the PewPew is an assault suit with two pews on it right?
[30.06.15 08:28:37] <Piecewise>   Thats the basic idea at least right?
[30.06.15 08:28:43] <Nikitian>   Yep, that's the basic idea
[30.06.15 08:28:48] <Nikitian>   (I think)
[30.06.15 08:29:00] <syvarris>   Oh, that's a good point:  Battlesuit variants aren't OP; They're still inferior to amps.  They just are making the power gap smaller!
[30.06.15 08:30:12] <Egan_BW>   all hail your Amp Masters, Deathtube plebs!
[30.06.15 08:30:34] <Piecewise>   Clearly We need to increase the power of the death tubes
[30.06.15 08:30:38] <syvarris>   <- Is an Exo specialist.  With +3, once I update my wiki page.
[30.06.15 08:30:48] <SeanMirrsen>   The 2PEW suit has the weapons inseparable from the suit, and uses the suit's power and cooling system (which was reworked specifically for the purpose) for them instead of individual units for each weapon.
[30.06.15 08:31:27] <Nikitian>   (which decreases the resource cost to about ~1/4th, I calculated)
[30.06.15 08:32:06] <Nikitian>   Because, you know, Piecewise might not be aware that I did!
[30.06.15 08:32:17] <syvarris>   Or decreases it to about 4/6th, Radio calculated.  Not that I agree with him.
[30.06.15 08:32:23] <syvarris>   *5/6th damnit
[30.06.15 08:33:35] <Nikitian>   :- (
[30.06.15 08:34:41] <Piecewise>   So thats what, 15 + 9+9?
[30.06.15 08:34:44] <syvarris>   No councilors are here to represent their side.  Gotta be fair.  Even if it's stupid. 
[30.06.15 08:34:58] <Piecewise>   maybe reduce it to an even 30?
[30.06.15 08:35:17] <Nikitian>   For the record: His numbers were off a *bit*. That is my only official statement on that calculation.
[30.06.15 08:35:18] <Piecewise>   Unless I'm missing something that makes the Pews come down from 12 to like 3
[30.06.15 08:35:34] <Nikitian>   Yep, 2~5
[30.06.15 08:35:38] <Nikitian>   I can prove, more or less
[30.06.15 08:35:50] <syvarris>   Equal in cost to an Avatar?
[30.06.15 08:36:03] <Piecewise>   Avatars now cost more
[30.06.15 08:36:06] <Nikitian>   (well, maybe 6 or 7, but still way lower than that estimate)
[30.06.15 08:36:07] <Piecewise>   Pretty sure
[30.06.15 08:36:07] <syvarris>   Question is: Are ASs staying at 15 tokens?
[30.06.15 08:36:13] <Nikitian>   Wait, ... they do?
[30.06.15 08:36:19] <Piecewise>   think I raised it to 50
[30.06.15 08:36:40] <syvarris>   If so, I can't agree with a price above 25 tokens.  I think 20 would be more fair, but I'm me.
[30.06.15 08:36:52] <SeanMirrsen>   The suit was also supposed to lose the kinamps and the electric fence system. I mean, defense system. How much cheaper would that make it?
[30.06.15 08:37:16] <syvarris>   Everyone thought that was a joke.  IIRC, the original armory page wasn't even updated.
[30.06.15 08:37:46] <syvarris>   Also, the arms are at 50% strength.  And the AS has no claymores, so it's essentially helpless in melee, aside from being stronger than an exoskeleton.
[30.06.15 08:37:55] <Piecewise>   Hmm
[30.06.15 08:38:14] <Piecewise>   25 huh?
[30.06.15 08:39:05] <syvarris>   That's what Radio was suggesting before.  Damn it why isn't he here I don't want to represent his side.
[30.06.15 08:39:19] <syvarris>   I do not agree with that price.  I heavily heavily do not agree with that price.
[30.06.15 08:39:52] <Piecewise>   You think it should be cheaper eh?
[30.06.15 08:40:19] <syvarris>   Yes.
[30.06.15 08:40:58] <Piecewise>   Well, we could do 20, but thats awful cheap for 2 pews
[30.06.15 08:41:08] <Piecewise>   Does it have to be 2?
[30.06.15 08:41:23] <syvarris>   We could have one with 2x fire rate?
[30.06.15 08:41:41] <Egan_BW>   makes it easier with suit strength
[30.06.15 08:41:48] <Nikitian>   2 Pews is not that much of a big deal, I'd say
[30.06.15 08:41:55] <Nikitian>   And it's more logical, anyway
[30.06.15 08:42:14] <SeanMirrsen>   See, the thing is, 2 PEWs as a single weapon would not cost twice as much. Not duct-taped together, but as one weapon, like a double-barrel shotgun.
[30.06.15 08:42:29] <SeanMirrsen>   Because the Plasma Projector is still more powerful.
[30.06.15 08:42:53] <Piecewise>   Hm
[30.06.15 08:43:12] <Piecewise>   Is the two things for extra power or just faster shooting?
[30.06.15 08:43:20] <SeanMirrsen>   Just faster shooting.
[30.06.15 08:43:25] <syvarris>   The plasma projector also doesn't have infinite ammo, and it's dodgable why am I saying this
[30.06.15 08:43:40] <Piecewise>   Then fuck it, we'll just say it uses the guts of one pew but can fire twice as fast. 20 tokens
[30.06.15 08:43:42] <SeanMirrsen>   A minute between shots is basically a DnD 4e Encounter power.
[30.06.15 08:44:05] <Piecewise>   Use the suit as a heat sink
[30.06.15 08:44:39] <Egan_BW>   is it in both arms?
[30.06.15 08:45:10] <Egan_BW>   if it's in just one they have uneven Strength
[30.06.15 08:45:44] <SeanMirrsen>   I'd be okay for 24 token if it kept the two separate guns, one in each arm.
[30.06.15 08:46:08] <SeanMirrsen>   (well, 'up to' 24 )
[30.06.15 08:46:13] <syvarris>   What are you doing Sean?
[30.06.15 08:46:28] <SeanMirrsen>   I don't want it to have one weapon that fires twice as fast.
[30.06.15 08:47:02] <Piecewise>   23 then.
[30.06.15 08:47:16] <syvarris>   And why not?  It makes the gun cheaper.  Cheaper means more common, and therefore more effective == useful.
[30.06.15 08:47:33] <SeanMirrsen>   It means 30 seconds between shots, rather than 2 shots per minute.
[30.06.15 08:48:17] <Egan_BW>   I'd prefer the cheaper one
[30.06.15 08:48:17] <Nikitian>   I just want to chime in and add that, from 'balance' standpoint, it's probably mostly the same between one and two shots
[30.06.15 08:48:21] <SeanMirrsen>   It is a difference between killing 2 enemy battlesuits in the first two rounds, or killing one and having to deal with the other manually until the gun recharges.
[30.06.15 08:48:46] <Nikitian>   Oh yeah, that might be the only case
[30.06.15 08:49:03] <SeanMirrsen>   Or if you miss the first shot.
[30.06.15 08:49:12] <syvarris>   How often are we going to be outnumbered by battlesuits?
[30.06.15 08:49:34] <syvarris>   Is that advantage worth 3 tokens to you?
[30.06.15 08:49:54] <SeanMirrsen>   By battlesuits, probably not often. By large, threatening, armored things in general? I'd say pretty much every second mission at best.
[30.06.15 08:50:10] <Egan_BW>   Dev would complain about you complaining that you can't kill two BS in two turns
[30.06.15 08:50:30] <Piecewise>   Dev just wants your heads on pikes though
[30.06.15 08:50:31] <SeanMirrsen>   And like I said, it allows you a second shot if you miss the first one.
[30.06.15 08:50:36] <Piecewise>   one head on several pikes
[30.06.15 08:50:52] <syvarris>   Blah.  Your suit, your choice.

- The 2PEW variant of the AS is set to cost 23 tokens.
- In the wake of this, all other BS and AS variants bar the standard will have to be re-evaluated and re-priced according to their value, before any can be purchased.
- The AS will completely replace the BS, and carry over as many of its variants as remain practical.
- Avatars of War now cost 50 tokens to allow an appropriate price gap between them and other gear.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

I recall PW once saying when someone was experimenting with a HEP, he said that HEPs don't like being made to fire faster than once a minute, and that it comes from their black box origins.
Eh, whatever, word of god.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I recall PW once saying when someone was experimenting with a HEP, he said that HEPs don't like being made to fire faster than once a minute, and that it comes from their black box origins.
Eh, whatever, word of god.

That hasn't changed. The 2PEW suit has 2 separate weapons. I opposed the idea of merging them into one double-firerate weapon on the suit before that thought properly registered, but I would have opposed it also on those grounds, because it'd just give us more ammunition against PW later.