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[Sean Mirrsen]

You mean even if it is actually a psychokinetic amplifier synchronised with trigger and users' brain via cord? It is just about durability of the device itself, if I'm getting it right.
Well, we can just make a longer Gauss coil which punches the projectile with the hammer to accelerate it. Then there goes the compact design and fats fire rate.

I... sort of doubt it's possible to have it link to your brain via cord, at least any sort of regular kinetic amp. You could use a vector manipulator I guess.

I thought you'd be using a gauss coil to accelerate a kinamp-tipped strike hammer. It seems like a more portable and accessible solution than directly linking the weapon to the user. Can you re-outline how the whole weapon you envision looks and functions?

Also, I sort of sketched a hypothetical design for the weapon I based on the description I thought you were going for. If you don't mind.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Comrade P.]

Welp, my quick-sketch-fu is inferior to yours, and here's what I did when I thought it'll have barrel:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Inside it is basically the same, but the access to hammer goes from the removable cover over the section between coil and barrel, and you removed the barrel and placed the magazine over the firing section.
P.S. Of course I don't mind.

[Radio Controlled]

Without any barrel, accuracy will suffer I suspect, as P mentioned. Your projectile has nothing to stabilize its trajectory to comepensate for lack of barrel (I guess you could try fins that fold in, but for an infantry weapon, that seems unwieldly). Great power is a bit useless if you can't hit anything.

And if you use super though projectiles, expect a decent increase in cost, and scrap the 'can fire anything' (though I guess weaker materials would explode as shrapnel in front of it, making a weak shotgun usable against unarmored targets).

[Comrade P.]

Maybe there is no need for super-tough projectiles, maybe the steel slugs will do the thing?

Kinamps are black boxes of space magiс rather than actual mechanical devices, right?

[Radio Controlled]

Small postage stamp-sized I think.

[Comrade P.]

Okay, postage stamp-sized pieces of space magic. Key words are space magic. I just don't like the idea of two separate non-synchronised expendable resources used, hence the brain connection stuff came in - someone told me it could power the amp for good, allowing it to be left without any maintenance needed.

[Sean Mirrsen]

A barrel is only going to be a detriment to a weapon that works via instantly accelerating its projectile. All you need is line up the impact hammer precisely enough, and have the slug be well-machined enough. Any further contact of the projectile with the weapon will rob it of destructive power, and if the energy imparted to the projectile is great enough (as it would be in this case), it may deal excessive damage to the weapon, or require the weapon to be made of prohibitively expensive extra-strong materials. If you absolutely need stability in flight, a short magnetic chamber with a spiral magnetic field can serve to impart a spin to the projectile as it leaves the weapon, without physical contact. This would require the projectile to have either a core or a shell of magnetic material. Probably a core, so that the stronger hexbug shell prevents the magnetic core from fragmenting.

[Nikitian]

Or - what if we used Sibilus design idea here? Shooting out microjet projectiles via regular means, and then having them gyroscopically stabilized in flight. I mean, we already have superior fuels thanks to RC's preparations, and it might be just cheap enough compared to the level of precision required otherwise. Plus, the speed and energy are already there, and the only thing required is the projectile stabilization, meaning it would probably require less fuel than otherwise.


Speaking of which, it might be the time to update the Sibilus design and/or ammunition themselves... Fortunately, Pyro's finally here again.

[Comrade P.]

So we have two questions:

1. Projectiles. How cheap can we make them? What is their final form?
Progress so far: rocket-propelled gyro-stabilised hexbug slugs (sounds expensive)

2. Kinamp as a primary acceleration power - can we power it in some other way to avoid periodical replacement?
Progress so far: nope, we can't.

Since it seems that there is no common opinion on those matters, I'll ask piecewise later.

[syvarris]

Are you saying that I can actually try to make a prototype gun which feeds on my own soul and eats my organic enemies from inside? Can I modify it so it will be fed by leftovers of my metabolism and CO2 I breathe out? Though that source might be insufficient, I need to figure it out. IC, my only organic part is brain, you see. So I'll probably need some coal dispenser attached to it.
I friggin' love this game.

Well, attaching it to you brain might not be possible, and if it is, it might add extra cost.  Mostly my comment about that was complimenting you ingenuity, plus the awesomeness of the idea.

Theoretically, everything else is correct, even up to being fed by CO2.  Or, really, just shovel some dirt into the magazine.  You're russian, so I wouldn't expect that to be an issue for your guns

You shouldn't need either of those options though.  Sharkplate bullets are, literally, dirt cheap, even if you buy them.  You could probably get fifty for a token.

With a weapon like that, there will not be a "barrel". The kinamp accelerates the target instantly, so at most you need a cradle to hold the projectile in place. This would make for a rather compact weapon.

Uh, no, this isn't true.  The barrel is needed to accurize the weapon, and impart a spin to the bullet.  A short barrel will be inaccurate regardless of whether it uses gunpowder, gauss coils, or kin amps.

Also, I don't think the kin amp accelerates the target instantly.  I thought that they just give a push that's stronger than it has any right to be.  Even if it did, it doesn't impart a spin, and therefore won't be accurate.

The problem is in the motive force - a kinetic amp is a finite source of power, so you'd have to both load regular ammo, and periodically replace the impact hammer, to keep the weapon operational.

You can buy a kin amp battery for a single token.  That means the battery isn't an integrated part of the thing, so we could probably build a link to place the battery on the outside of the gun.  That way, we wouldn't need to replace the amp itself.

A barrel is only going to be a detriment to a weapon that works via instantly accelerating its projectile. All you need is line up the impact hammer precisely enough, and have the slug be well-machined enough. Any further contact of the projectile with the weapon will rob it of destructive power, and if the energy imparted to the projectile is great enough (as it would be in this case), it may deal excessive damage to the weapon, or require the weapon to be made of prohibitively expensive extra-strong materials. If you absolutely need stability in flight, a short magnetic chamber with a spiral magnetic field can serve to impart a spin to the projectile as it leaves the weapon, without physical contact. This would require the projectile to have either a core or a shell of magnetic material. Probably a core, so that the stronger hexbug shell prevents the magnetic core from fragmenting.

I... this sounds expensive, and complex.  Why would we do this rather than just use a kin amp and barrel?

Adding magnetic coils to the gun would just be going backwards.  The primary advantage of this weapon is the ability to shoot anything bullet-shaped.  If we require the bullets to have a magnetic core, then they'll just be more expensive, and more limited in scope.

1. Projectiles. How cheap can we make them? What is their final form?
Progress so far: rocket-propelled gyro-stabilised hexbug slugs (sounds expensive)

All the fancy other stuff is only necessary if we must use straight hexbug shells.  While their AP ability would be nice, it can still be utilized with sharkplate jacketed hexbug rounds, or simply ignored.

2. Kinamp as a primary acceleration power - can we power it in some other way to avoid periodical replacement?
Progress so far: nope, we can't.

Well, we could probably have the kin amp's power source externally mounted.  I don't see why the amp itself would need to be replaced.

[Comrade P.]

Are you saying that I can actually try to make a prototype gun which feeds on my own soul and eats my organic enemies from inside? Can I modify it so it will be fed by leftovers of my metabolism and CO2 I breathe out? Though that source might be insufficient, I need to figure it out. IC, my only organic part is brain, you see. So I'll probably need some coal dispenser attached to it.
I friggin' love this game.

Well, attaching it to you brain might not be possible, and if it is, it might add extra cost.  Mostly my comment about that was complimenting you ingenuity, plus the awesomeness of the idea.

Theoretically, everything else is correct, even up to being fed by CO2.  Or, really, just shovel some dirt into the magazine.  You're russian, so I wouldn't expect that to be an issue for your guns

You shouldn't need either of those options though.  Sharkplate bullets are, literally, dirt cheap, even if you buy them.  You could probably get fifty for a token.

So let's say the basic version has barrel and uses a special ammo processor to replicate sharkplate rounds on the spot from whatever carbon source you shove into it, and thus the only expendable power source is kinamp batteries, which are exterior, to ease the process of changing them.

[Sean Mirrsen]

If all you want is to "shoot anything", you might be better off using a straight-up vector automanip, with optional sharkplate slug dispenser. That's more of a UWM way of doing things, but in this case it's just plainly the simplest. If you want to go (comparatively) low-tech, you might want to consider a slingshot slash crossbow, powered by myomer cable. If you can have "rope" made of chain-linked electricity-powered muscles that contract to as little as a tenth of their maximum length, you can pretty much chuck anything, with a proper frame and power source. Rocks. Rebar. Nanobot-tipped sharkplate bolts. Spare teammates. Anything.

[Comrade P.]

What I want is reasonable balance between "shoot all the things you see lying around as fast as you can and hope it dies" and "shoot one nano/alien technology projectile at supersonic speed at high expense once to deadify it". I do want some versatility in ammo available, like we have with Gauss rifle, just a bit more - say, low-tech bullets with gunpowder can be fired from GAUPT, hell, given an adjustable magnetic clip lock you can even put low tech clips you picked up from your foes in it and keep shooting.
What I want most is full-auto fire. And given the hammer has a short way where it goes back and forth, it is possible to make it to do that quick.

[Radio Controlled]

even up to being fed by CO2

I'm asking about that now, but I wouldn't be surprised if gaseous carbon sources are too diffuse to contribute a lot unless you wait a long time.

Also, I don't think the kin amp accelerates the target instantly.  I thought that they just give a push that's stronger than it has any right to be.  Even if it did, it doesn't impart a spin, and therefore won't be accurate.

Yeah, I really don't think you'll even have a little bit of accuracy with anything but specific ammo and a single purpose/dedicated barrel.

The primary advantage of this weapon is the ability to shoot anything bullet-shaped.  If we require the bullets to have a magnetic core, then they'll just be more expensive, and more limited in scope.

But if your projectile doesn't nicely fit the barrel, it's probably gonna impact with it rather badly every time you fire, damaging the barrel and lowering accuracy even more, both for scrap you fire and the purpose build ammo.

You might get around this by making the barrel able to be screwed off. Then one can attach the barrel needed: a purpose build one for regular ammo, providing accuracy, and a very strong one for firing scrap and surviving the ordeal. But if you can have a compact enough sharkmist bullet/ammo producing thing, the ability to fire scrap can be done away with I'd think.


And then, we still have the issue that this will probably have a heavy kickback. I mean, how much of the kinamp energy would go to the projectile, and how much would go to it's immediate 'environment'? I think the latter isn't negligible. Though there are ways to lower kickback of course.

[Comrade P.]

On the subject of barrel, I thought I can use something like a diaphragm tube to quickly adjust width, since it doesn't have to deal with pressure from inside, just guide the projectile through:

Spoiler: That's how different ammo type adjustments would look like (click to show/hide)