Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PyroDesu]

Er.. Paramagnetic forces are kinda small, you know?  Like hundreds of thousands of times smaller than ferromagnetic ones?  I'm not so sure about the viability of putting tens of thousands of tesla strong magnetic fields through a hand-held device.

Also, isn't there a whole zoo of special rounds available for the gauss rifle?  Is there an APDS round there?

I'm just worried about the idea of a weapon I could convert to a handheld orbital strike cannon..

Not necessarily, as far as I know - it depends on the magnetic moment. A paramagnet with a magnetic moment equal to a ferromagnet should (I think...) act the same, only the magnetic moments become disordered in the absence of a magnetic field. Apply a field (like Gauss weapons do), and they line up, like in a ferromagnet.

And it just so happens that Uranium Arsenide can be a paramagnet with a magnetic moment of 2.13+/-0.005 Bohr magnetons, compared to iron's 2.22 Bohr magnetons. (Source)

[Radio Controlled]

Er.. Paramagnetic forces are kinda small, you know?  Like hundreds of thousands of times smaller than ferromagnetic ones?  I'm not so sure about the viability of putting tens of thousands of tesla strong magnetic fields through a hand-held device.

Also, isn't there a whole zoo of special rounds available for the gauss rifle?  Is there an APDS round there?

I'm just worried about the idea of a weapon I could convert to a handheld orbital strike cannon..

Not necessarily, as far as I know - it depends on the magnetic moment. A paramagnet with a magnetic moment equal to a ferromagnet should (I think...) act the same, only the magnetic moments become disordered in the absence of a magnetic field. Apply a field (like Gauss weapons do), and they line up, like in a ferromagnet.

And it just so happens that Uranium Arsenide can be a paramagnet with a magnetic moment of 2.13+/-0.005 Bohr magnetons, compared to iron's 2.22 Bohr magnetons. (Source)

Pyro, I am willing to bet money you viewed that article you linked from a university computer. Care to guess how?

[PyroDesu]

Er.. Paramagnetic forces are kinda small, you know?  Like hundreds of thousands of times smaller than ferromagnetic ones?  I'm not so sure about the viability of putting tens of thousands of tesla strong magnetic fields through a hand-held device.

Also, isn't there a whole zoo of special rounds available for the gauss rifle?  Is there an APDS round there?

I'm just worried about the idea of a weapon I could convert to a handheld orbital strike cannon..

Not necessarily, as far as I know - it depends on the magnetic moment. A paramagnet with a magnetic moment equal to a ferromagnet should (I think...) act the same, only the magnetic moments become disordered in the absence of a magnetic field. Apply a field (like Gauss weapons do), and they line up, like in a ferromagnet.

And it just so happens that Uranium Arsenide can be a paramagnet with a magnetic moment of 2.13+/-0.005 Bohr magnetons, compared to iron's 2.22 Bohr magnetons. (Source)

Pyro, I am willing to bet money you viewed that article you linked from a university computer. Care to guess how?

No, I'm on my personal computer. What, you get paywalled? Try going here and hit PDF in the upper left.

[Radio Controlled]

snip
No, I'm on my personal computer. What, you get paywalled? Try going here and hit PDF in the upper left.

Indeed I did. Say, if you click your original link, do you have access to the article? If so, i'm not sure why I wouldn't be able to from my pc.

[Radio Controlled]

By the way, could you provide a link to the original thread that gave you the idea? I'm curious to see it.

Thirdly, even if it would work as you think, wouldn't it still make more sense to use an outer sabot-like shell optimized for attaining speed and an inner core maximized for kinetic penetration potential?

FAKEDIT: accidental doublepost. Aww.

[PyroDesu]

-snip-
Indeed I did. Say, if you click your original link, do you have access to the article? If so, i'm not sure why I wouldn't be able to from my pc.

Yeah, I tried it. Different browser and private mode (in case cookies kept it open), it worked fine. Might be just from me going through the university's internet, even though I'm not at one of their computers. You try the workaround method? If needs be, I could snip the data for you.

And here's the original thread. You're gonna want to look on page 8 to see someone talk about DUDS, though I wouldn't exactly say they have data on how effective the idea is. But the basic idea does sound like it would be effective, even if they exaggerate. Most of the thread's about art, some technical bits.

[Devastator]

Hmm, well, that would make a reasonable projectile.  What's the limit for the strength of the interanal field?

[Radio Controlled]

Might be just from me going through the university's internet, even though I'm not at one of their computers.

Yeah, that's it. Using their internet means you can use their authorization. But the workaround worked.

[Parisbre56]

Wouldn't a sabot help with the shell's aerodynamics when fired in atmosphere if it doesn't fit perfectly (or at least good enough)? Otherwise the air inside the gun might cause the bullet to flip and get stuck. At least that's how I imagine it.

[Harry Baldman]

I'm probably understanding what a sabot is wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to make the sabot out of something ferromagnetic to help launch the round and make the round itself out of depleted uranium? Or was that the whole idea in the first place?

EDIT: Oh, wait, that's what Radio asked moments ago. Didn't read. Hm. Must contribute original content.

Aha!

But more seriously, just think about how, in real life, gut-dwelling pathogens get in there and move around between hosts.

Probiotic foods, fecal matter, improperly made regular food, expired regular food, improperly made expired regular food with traces of fecal matter in it, water with traces of fecal matter in it, that kind of thing?

Brilliant, actually. You just need to infiltrate a water treatment plant and then abuse the hell out of moments when nobody's looking. And steal all the soap from public bathrooms as well and sabotage the sinks there.

At any rate, seems like biotech weaponry could be applicable warfare, making me stand corrected, though it's definitely applicable rather narrowly. Could be really fun to work with, though, and that's what truly matters in the end.

[PyroDesu]

Wouldn't a sabot help with the shell's aerodynamics when fired in atmosphere if it doesn't fit perfectly (or at least good enough)? Otherwise the air inside the gun might cause the bullet to flip and get stuck. At least that's how I imagine it.

Saboted projectiles are usually fin-stabilized. I think. Anyways, I assume these would be - it would also help stop it from flipping inside the barrel. Or we could use a lightweight plastic sabot instead of a ferromagnetic one - you're still slowing it down, but not as much.

I'm probably understanding what a sabot is wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to make the sabot out of something ferromagnetic to help launch the round and make the round itself out of depleted uranium? Or was that the whole idea in the first place?

The point of the matter is that with uranium (or a uranium compound, like the aforementioned UAs), the flechette is itself magnetic such that it doesn't need a ferromagnetic sabot, which would be additional mass during acceleration and therefore an unneeded drop in speed. Also, who said anything about depleted, other than in the bit that gave me the idea? Hell, make it enriched and give opponents radiation poisoning (alongside uranium poisoning), even if they don't get hit in a vital area.

Also, something interesting I found doing research for this - pure uranium is a superconductor at below 0.6K. Completely useless, but interesting, it's apparently not often you find an element that can be a superconductor and in another compound, a ferromagnet (and in other compounds, an antiferromagnet).

[Harry Baldman]

The point of the matter is that with uranium (or a uranium compound, like the aforementioned UAs), the flechette is itself magnetic such that it doesn't need a ferromagnetic sabot, which would be additional mass during acceleration and therefore an unneeded drop in speed. Also, who said anything about depleted, other than in the bit that gave me the idea? Hell, make it enriched and give opponents without a suit radiation poisoning (alongside uranium poisoning), even if they don't get hit in a vital area.

But if you have a sabot, which doesn't hit the enemy anyway, or at least isn't designed to, why not make it out of something that isn't uranium (since that might be somewhat expensive), like something ferromagnetic and cheap that doesn't need unusually wicked magnets to shoot it? Like... steel, I guess? Though I suppose what you mean is that it doesn't need a sabot in the first place, since it's paramagnetic, yet still responds just as well to magnetism as a ferromagnetic? So, uranium rounds, basically?

Magnets. Hm. Should find out exactly how they work one day. I know ferromagnetics move in the direction of the field nicely, paramagnetics do a little, diamagnetics move in the opposite direction a little, but that's that, pretty much.

And shouldn't depleted uranium be denser than enriched uranium? Depleted uranium has more of the heavier isotope, doesn't it? Or is there some unusual density effect at work here?

I'm just made of questions today. It's late. I should be asleep now.

[Radio Controlled]

Probiotic foods, fecal matter, improperly made regular food, expired regular food, improperly made expired regular food with traces of fecal matter in it, water with traces of fecal matter in it, that kind of thing?
Brilliant, actually. You just need to infiltrate a water treatment plant and then abuse the hell out of moments when nobody's looking. And steal all the soap from public bathrooms as well and sabotage the sinks there.

Some very good suggestions! In RL it's a real pain to keep food, water etc sterile and safe, and despite our efforts it sometimes goes wrong. So, if you have a pathogen engineered to effectively spread like this (eg thermophilic to survive sterilization) and remain hidden until activated, and an agent intentionally trying to spread it, we can have some great potential for getting it where it needs to be.

At any rate, seems like biotech weaponry could be applicable warfare, making me stand corrected, though it's definitely applicable rather narrowly. Could be really fun to work with, though, and that's what truly matters in the end.

Oh yes, biotech has potential, but won't ever fully win the war against the UWM for us while we sit back and sip margaritas.

Really, it's just another tool in the belt we whip them with.

The point of the matter is that with uranium (or a uranium compound, like the aforementioned UAs), the flechette is itself magnetic such that it doesn't need a ferromagnetic sabot, which would be additional mass during acceleration and therefore an unneeded drop in speed

Could you tell us if this is supposed to be an entirely new weapon, or a new ammo type for the existing gauss rifle? Because if first, you could just ditch the sabot and just make a gauss gun that shoots uranium bullets (that is, if the principle works as it should. Maybe we should go to a physics forum and ask around?)

Also, the ferromagnetic shell would indeed be heavier, but wouldn't it also help with the acceleration itself more than it hampers it by weight, thus still making it a good addition? And if you used that, you could go for an even denser inner core (platinum comes to mind, osmium perhaps?)

Also, who said anything about depleted, other than in the bit that gave me the idea? Hell, make it enriched and give opponents radiation poisoning (alongside uranium poisoning), even if they don't get hit in a vital area.

Then you do have the additional problem of radiating whoever is supposed to be firing that thing. Seems a bit unpractical, all things considered.

Also, something interesting I found doing research for this - pure uranium is a superconductor at below 0.6K. Completely useless, but interesting, it's apparently not often you find an element that can be a superconductor and in another compound, a ferromagnet (and in other compounds, an antiferromagnet).

Hah, you're right, that's rather unusual. Funny how extreme temperatures changes properties.

And shouldn't depleted uranium be denser than enriched uranium? Depleted uranium has more of the heavier isotope, doesn't it? Or is there some unusual density effect at work here?

Not sure if the difference in mass is high enough to really matter (could calculate it, but can't be bothered right now, of to bed after this), but even then there's denser materials we could consider.

I'm just made of questions today. It's late. I should be asleep now.

Pff, you say that as if it were a bad thing. A curious mind is a great treasure!

[PyroDesu]

The point of the matter is that with uranium (or a uranium compound, like the aforementioned UAs), the flechette is itself magnetic such that it doesn't need a ferromagnetic sabot, which would be additional mass during acceleration and therefore an unneeded drop in speed

Could you tell us if this is supposed to be an entirely new weapon, or a new ammo type for the existing gauss rifle? Because if first, you could just ditch the sabot and just make a gauss gun that shoots uranium bullets (that is, if the principle works as it should. Maybe we should go to a physics forum and ask around?)

Also, the ferromagnetic shell would indeed be heavier, but wouldn't it also help with the acceleration itself more than it hampers it by weight, thus still making it a good addition? And if you used that, you could go for an even denser inner core (platinum comes to mind, osmium perhaps?)

Also, who said anything about depleted, other than in the bit that gave me the idea? Hell, make it enriched and give opponents radiation poisoning (alongside uranium poisoning), even if they don't get hit in a vital area.

Then you do have the additional problem of radiating whoever is supposed to be firing that thing. Seems a bit unpractical, all things considered.

Also, something interesting I found doing research for this - pure uranium is a superconductor at below 0.6K. Completely useless, but interesting, it's apparently not often you find an element that can be a superconductor and in another compound, a ferromagnet (and in other compounds, an antiferromagnet).

Hah, you're right, that's rather unusual. Funny how extreme temperatures changes properties.

And shouldn't depleted uranium be denser than enriched uranium? Depleted uranium has more of the heavier isotope, doesn't it? Or is there some unusual density effect at work here?

Not sure if the difference in mass is high enough to really matter (could calculate it, but can't be bothered right now, of to bed after this), but even then there's denser materials we could consider.

I'm just made of questions today. It's late. I should be asleep now.

Pff, you say that as if it were a bad thing. A curious mind is a great treasure!

Ammunition - could make a version for our bog-standard Gauss rifles, and a heavier version/shotgun version for the Brisant (if it even gets approved). And no, it would hinder the acceleration by virtue of mass - the only time more mass is a good thing is when it's mass hitting the target. Otherwise, it's wasted energy. And if you know a good physics forum, go right on ahead.

We have suits with radiation shielding. Most of them do not.

It's not nearly as funky (though it is a lot more funky visually), but have you ever seen an example of fluorescence thermochromism? Temperatures changing properties is always cool, even if sometimes it's not so extreme.

3 grams/mole difference, assuming pure U-235 vs pure U-238. Not very much.

The best.

[Radio Controlled]

Ammunition - could make a version for our bog-standard Gauss rifles, and a heavier version/shotgun version for the Brisant (if it even gets approved). And no, it would hinder the acceleration by virtue of mass - the only time more mass is a good thing is when it's mass hitting the target. Otherwise, it's wasted energy. And if you know a good physics forum, go right on ahead.

Brisant is the name of that grenade launcher, right?

((See, that's what happens when weapons get non-descriptive names!))

Also, I'm not following your logic, but I think I might see why. The sabot, in your idea, is it discarded after launch or not? Because if it is, then it doesn't matter how much heavier it is after the shell has been shedded, does it?

Say you have three shells (=the outer shell, not the full projectile), one lightweight non ferromagnetic (eg plastic), one heavier non ferromagnetic, and one heavier ferromagnetic. The second one obviously loses out to the first one, because it is heavier and doesn't add anything. It's also inferior to the third one, because there the core payload gains extra speed due to a higher acceleration (due to the ferromagnetic shell also being pushed away by the applied magnetic field). Even without an uranium core, the third one would still be able to be fired from the gauss gun.

So now, is it now possible that the loss in velocity from the extra weight is offset by the extra velocity gained from the extra push from the ferromagnetic shell? Or is there some reason as to why the ferromagnetic shell would not add a (significant) increase in speed to the projectile? Hell, imagine for a second we made the shell out of a ridiculously expensive material that gains maximal possible thrust for the same 'amount of magnetic field' (tesla). Would that still slow down rather than speed up the core?

If there is some reason that there would be no speed increase (eg there is an upper attainable speed limit somehow, and if the uranium core can achieve that on its own, the shell cannot make it faster, thus warranting a shell that's as light as possible) then I could agree, but I con't know of any reasonable reason for such a limit.


If you want it not to lose it's shell, that's a slightly different story (though again, if it adds more sped than it takes away it should still help) but then I'd wonder why you'd want that, seeing as how there's good reasons for going for a smaller diameter projectile (better sectional density for one, I think).

We have suits with radiation shielding. Most of them do not.

Ah yes, the magical radiation shielding material. Hmm, it might work, but still, we'd have to assess if the increased difficulty in handling is worth the added damage potential (after all, in the military, they often use things that are reliable, safe and easy to use, not just the most powerful).

It's not nearly as funky (though it is a lot more funky visually), but have you ever seen an example of fluorescence thermochromism? Temperatures changing properties is always cool, even if sometimes it's not so extreme.

Youtube is our friend.

Nothing earthshaking, but interesting nonetheless.