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Author Topic: Hephaestus OOC  (Read 163592 times)

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2250 on: March 03, 2016, 04:48:31 pm »

Don't stop on my account--I enjoy tinker regardless of how useful it is.  IMO, the fun is in coming up with stuff, and figuring out how it works.  Ending up with something is useful is just the icing on top.

Also, Toribash isn't something that anyone can use--the council vetoed it because it's too OP.

Egan_BW

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2251 on: March 03, 2016, 05:35:56 pm »

It also makes no sense, unless you can literally program in bullet time. :P
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NAV

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2252 on: March 03, 2016, 05:43:11 pm »

Hmm, toribash might be balanced if you had to spend a turn inputting your movements, then move the next turn, like in actual Toribash.
Or just useless.
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2253 on: March 03, 2016, 07:29:02 pm »

Egan, it's supposed to be mostly computer automated, with the user merely saying what to do.  One doesn't actually program all the movements for "punch"--they just say punch, and all the movements were preprogrammed a long time ago.

Hence why I described it as a combination of street fighter and toribash.  When you're actually in combat, you just have a vast array of preset movements that you can make.  The toribash part is just because a lot of time was spent tweaking those movements, balance algorithms, and such, long before any fight.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2254 on: March 05, 2016, 09:30:17 am »

Taking it here from the tinker thread. Bit in a hurry, so might be too curt again. But I have 5 to 10 pages to write today, so I better get to that. If there's anything not clear, be sure to ask for more in-depth explanation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 09:32:23 am by Radio Controlled »
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2255 on: March 26, 2016, 11:33:12 am »

Context:

Quote
I read the first part and skimmed the second.

Thought it'd be something like that. So, can we start the project then? Are you clear on the steps we're taking and in what order? If yes, when should I check back in to see if there's problems or issues we should address? Or will you just notify us when that happens?
Basically, all you need is to decide with the mission 26 people as to what universe to send it in, and then have one of them do that as an action. As per when to check back on it, I'd give it a bit. Check back every so often to see if it's grown to a usable state.

Wait, what about the VR testing phase, and the field test in a controlled environment (eg a moon somewhere in the Hep system)? Can we assume those all went off without a hitch, or did you roll and did we just get lucky (or unlucky, if the roll indicated there are problems but we don't find them)?
Eh, we can but whatever. Even if we do it there's still a chance of failure no matter what you do. We can fuck around in testing to make you feel better and so you can maybe patch one failure point, but I'll always find another way to fuck ya if you roll bad.

SO WE MIGHT AS WELL GET THIS ORGY STARTED!

Point taken. However, I'm currently on a mission, so I'm not sure if it'd be ok to brief Hep/M26 people on the project. Should I, or should I wait till the mission is over? And if yes, should we explain it as communicating through the portal in real time (which would be weird, since you'd expect Miya to stay focused on the task at hand unless there hasn't been anything incoming for a long time), or pretend said briefing happened at some other time before or after the mission (aka Hep brand Flexible timeTM?

Also, can I decide for myself whether said project has been secretly in the works at Hep up till now, or if it has been done in collaboration with other Hep peeps? There's been input from others OOC'ly, but not really much IC'ly, so I'm not sure yet how we'll be spinning this (though Miya keeping a very close eye on it and not allowing direct alterations/additions unless seen and approved is a given either way).

Finally, how many of these auto-colonies do we have access to right now, and do we have to select the modules we want to send over to any particular candidate, or are the appropriate modules just chosen automatically?
These are said modules, in case you don’t remember:


Spoiler: command and control (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: knowledge (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: EUE (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Spess shups (click to show/hide)
For the purposes of speed you can communicate with them directly OOC, we'll assume you actually got this project started before you left on mission in the timeline of the gameworld.

Up to you.

I'd select the ones you want, because, for instance, an EUE is gonna be pretty resource heavy. You don't want to send it to some place where it seems like it will be a struggle just to maintain basic functions, let alone more complex ones.

@syv: I'd first like to establish what, if any, role Saint played in the project. I think Miya could just do it on his own, and then just brief once the testing is mostly done, but on the other hand it'd probably make more sense for him to brief Hep people (which would normally be like 5-ish people, but has been reduced to just 1 or 2 these days) on the idea of the project once the basic idea/feasibility is worked out with Steve, so that they could then provide some input and help spot and fix potential problems. Miya'd stay in control of the thing at all times however, and keep a clear eye on what modifications are done where and when, working directly with (Are)Steve for that. Other than that people would be free to eg. set up a small fork that has some different parameters and run it in a VR sim to see what the differences are, as long as Miya is kept informed of what's going on when it comes to the autocolony project.

So, how would you prefer we spin it?

@ Ozarck (and other m26 people): Once I've worked out the above with syv, it'd be time for Miya to inform Dester, and then the other m26 explorers (depending on how the briefing with Dester goes). PW said we could work it out OOC, though I think that if we do the briefing and such IC and retcon it into happening before (or after?) m27 he wouldn't mind. So, 2 questions: would you prefer it to be done OOC or retcon it and do it IC'ly? I can imagine the former would be fastest and easiest, but if there are big objections or problems a character would have then the latter approach might be better. Secondly, have you been following the development of the project? Should I try to type up a summary of it? I wouldn't terribly mind, but it'd be quite some work, and I can use the time otherwise. Would be giving the links to the appropriate threads be good enough otherwise?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 11:49:00 am by Radio Controlled »
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2256 on: March 26, 2016, 02:45:04 pm »

I think it would make sense to say Saint was involved in the project to the same degree I was.  Everything I suggested and pointed out was said by Saint, and everything you did was done by Miya.  Simple and logical.  I have no objection to Miya keeping dominance over the project, though I suppose it does seem slightly odd from an IC perspective, since Miya's the military general who's frequently busy with murder.

As to how we should handle it, I think I'd prefer we do it IC because that would be more fun.  I don't think the time needed is such a problem, because M26 is probably going to be a very long mission, and I doubt setting up colonies late makes a mechanical difference.  Then again, I don't think Saint would really have anything interesting to say about this--at best, he'd argue with other people.


...Also, huh, your post before last was a continuation of our discussion about this colony.  I had actually suggested you move it here, saying it would probably make me respond faster, and then I didn't respond at all.  Whoops. :-[

Ozarck

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2257 on: March 26, 2016, 02:52:49 pm »

The fuck am I looking at?

Building a set of alternate EUEs which can access completely different sets of universes, setting up new EUEs in new universes, etc?

Why would this be kept secret from, oh, say, Dester, or M26 in general?

The only reason I have never posted an action to make an EUE in, oh say, CavernsVerse, is because it was stated that the EUE was incredibly complex, with insanely high tolerances, created over a thousand years by the Doc. Just building one, in ONE verse, seemed a lifelong project.

I see something about destroying EUEs and all data associated so that the Humans are cut off completely from pursuers. a worthy ambition, though I'd be more inclined to send the scientists through and remotely detonate the EUE than kill people for no reason. However, danger comes from both directions - behind and before us, so the point is almost irrelevant.

syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2258 on: March 26, 2016, 03:19:18 pm »

We've been assuming we could build more EUEs because, IIRC, PW said our current one was small and we'd have to make a bigger one.  Also, I believe we asked at some point, and PW said we can make more.  He did read through that quote, and didn't say we can't, at the least.

I don't think this would be kept secret from Dester or BLOPs so much as just not mentioned, because they weren't needed.  You actually could have joined in on the discussion but I'm guessing you didn't read the Tinker or Poke threads, where most of the discussion went on.  It probably would have been polite to post something in the M26 thread, though--sorry about that.

Sending the scientists through presents the risk that they probably know how the original machine was made, and thus a hostile entity could use their knowledge to attack the previous set of universes.  They're a liability regardless of which set of universes they stay in, so they die.  It's only a couple of lives to ensure the safety of trillions, so I think it's worth it.  If it really bugs you, we could warn all applicants about them being killed if they succeed, and allow them to rethink their decision.  It would probably slow things down, but we literally have infinite time.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2259 on: March 26, 2016, 06:20:29 pm »

Quote
I think it would make sense to say Saint was involved in the project to the same degree I was.  Everything I suggested and pointed out was said by Saint, and everything you did was done by Miya.  Simple and logical.  I have no objection to Miya keeping dominance over the project, though I suppose it does seem slightly odd from an IC perspective, since Miya's the military general who's frequently busy with murder.

Figured as much, checked just in case. Consider it cannon.

As for keeping control, it's not like people wouldn't be allowed to eg. experiment with the thing, but Miya would need to check the experiment and a list of safety measures before ok'ing it, just to ensure the person working with it isn't in it over his/her head (which, given certain recent events, seems surprisingly likely) or tries to sneak in a hidden "also [person X] is your lord and saviour, obey him sans question" directive. True about the 'busy with murder', though on the other hand the Sword now needs multiple years of travel to even start a single FTL jump, so I think there would be plenty of time in between missions.

Quote
...Also, huh, your post before last was a continuation of our discussion about this colony.  I had actually suggested you move it here, saying it would probably make me respond faster, and then I didn't respond at all.  Whoops. :-[

Eh, it happens, don't worry about it.

Quote
The fuck am I looking at?

Nerds gonna nerd.

Quote
Building a set of alternate EUEs which can access completely different sets of universes, setting up new EUEs in new universes, etc?
Why would this be kept secret from, oh, say, Dester, or M26 in general?
The only reason I have never posted an action to make an EUE in, oh say, CavernsVerse, is because it was stated that the EUE was incredibly complex, with insanely high tolerances, created over a thousand years by the Doc. Just building one, in ONE verse, seemed a lifelong project.

Not hidden, more like not actively involved in the project up till now. Mind that, while we presumably (unless pw changes his mind) can indeed make new EUE's, making them is indeed still very difficult, time- and resource-wise, though probably not as hard as the first one. And like syv said, sorry for not explicitly inviting you and others to the discussion, though I kinda figured that anyone interested in the topic would join in naturally :v

Quote
I see something about destroying EUEs and all data associated so that the Humans are cut off completely from pursuers. a worthy ambition, though I'd be more inclined to send the scientists through and remotely detonate the EUE than kill people for no reason. However, danger comes from both directions - behind and before us, so the point is almost irrelevant.

Note that that part of the plan is not set in stone yet, if we can have a computer/wetware do the tweaks to the EUE, then maybe we can just erase the data and/or destroy the hardware that stored the critical info. But yeah, as syv said, if there's no other way then we'll indeed be sacrificing a few people for a gain in existential security (thoug that doesn't mean we have to be needlessly ruthless or inhumane about it).
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

NAV

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2260 on: March 26, 2016, 06:28:35 pm »

I don't see why you have to kill the scientists since you can erase their memories.
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The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2261 on: March 26, 2016, 06:36:07 pm »

Can ER tech do perfect erasing of certain memories without outright lobotomizing its patients, while simultaneously giving absolutely perfect guarantee the information cannot in any way be retrieved? If yes, that's certainly a good option to consider.
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21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Xantalos

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2262 on: March 26, 2016, 06:37:44 pm »

Do you need these scientists silenced straight away, or can you wait a bit?
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2263 on: March 26, 2016, 06:40:28 pm »

You aren't getting them, no.  :P
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Xantalos

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #2264 on: March 26, 2016, 06:41:21 pm »

Well not yet anyway. I'm not even on Heph right now! :P
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