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[TheBiggerFish]

Heh.

[Radio Controlled]

Final candidates seem to be Doomsday, The Ram and Haebi acid. Which one is superior in terms of getting shit melted, the ram or haebi?
Assuming a standard canister size, whatever that happens to be, what would be canister prices? I don't want to jerk off other guys' shapeshifting arms.

Standard canister 'size' is 10 uses. One could use larger ones, of course, or even attach a tube leading to a big tank filled with whatever fitted on the back, but enough volume 10 normal uses per 1 token refill has been used up till now.

Also, I did research into using strong acids/bases/liquid helium/anomalous melting mustard gas/modified sharkmist and the like as chem thrower ammo before, and pw mentioned the tubing of the thrower would also need to be reinforced to handle very corrosive chemicals/substances (but would otherwise be able to do it). We might be able to have the thrower get that 'upgrade' without having to pay extra though.

Then again, he may have forgotten entirely about it even needing it as well :v

Spoiler: @Maegli (click to show/hide)

((The Gurney is most likely not being considered at all, currently.  You didn't bold your post in this thread, so PW didn't see it, and you never specifically asked the Council to review it in either thread.

The Council is a group of (mostly anonymous) players, led by Radio, which PW trusts with balancing and pricing.  To my understanding, which may be flawed, they finalize all the game-mechanic stuff;  Piecewise deals with everything else.  Essentially, PW decides whether it works, and how it works, while the council decides how well and at what price.

PW will only respond to bolded questions posted in this thread; he does not read Heph OOC, for health reasons.  The Council will generally see and respond to (preferably bolded) questions posted in either this or the Heph OOC thread.  The council seems to be somewhat less reliable than PW, although that speaks more of PW's insane dedication than any flaw on their part.  Also, most of their discussion goes on in secret, so it's not really obvious when they're talking about what, and whether or not they've forgotten about something.  Periodic requests for updates aren't a bad idea if you're talking to the council.  Also, they're slower than PW due to being consensus based, rather than ass-pull based.

I honestly don't know how much Tinker is supposed to be discussed directly with the Council--They primarily operate at PW's request, but seem to be fine with direct questions.  Radio's almost certainly reading this, so if we're lucky he'll chime in.


Aside from questioning the council, Heph OOC is also useful for questioning other players.  We'll generally be all too happy to discuss practicality of designs, suggest what they might cost, suggest improvements, or answer questions about old materials and equipment.  We've got far more knowledge than is on the wiki, which I should really try to remedy.

In general, we prefer to keep as much discussion out of this thread as possible, so that it's easier to search it for statements from PW.  So, again, any response should be put in Heph OOC.  I'm only responding to you here to make sure you see my post.))

As you indicated, getting an idea with pw of whether something works and other technical aspects is good. A rough price range can also help, especially if it's for something totally new or 'exotic'. Then presenting the council with a write-up of the relevant data will lead to us discussing it for a while, we then try to come to a consensus/agreement in terms of price and such and report back, and after some more back and forth between us and the tinkerer if needed you should have a new armory-ready item (possible Hep admittance notwithstanding). We do other things as well, such as looking into/reviewing/giving advice about things if pw asks it, or helping a tinkerer with something upon request.

And yeah, we can be slower than pw, but that's the price you pay for having things be actually discussed and considered rather than spur-of-the-moment gut feeling. Means we should be more consistent, if nothing else.

(Note that some council members are kinda busy in rl for the moment, so proceedings are going a bit slow, but one can still put things before us.)

[NAV]

Coating the inside of the tube with chem-off is the obvious solution. It would probably cost 1 token, since you can coat an entire suit of armour for 4.

Good work Aoshi on making the universal chem thrower more universal.

[Radio Controlled]

Might work, though I can also see it not being enough in case of really nasty stuff like Heabi super-acid, that ram stuff, or the anomalous mustard gas. Forcefield should reliably work due to nothing really being there to interact with, but would also be more expensive. I'd look into it, but that'd probably cross the threshold from 'asking some questions' to real tinkering, a no no while on mission (then again, aoshi is also on mission and is tinkering in two threads (!), and pw is going along with it).

[AoshimaMichio]

Hence stepping into stasis.

[Radio Controlled]

@syv: council decided that the thing you proposed seemed good. Damage profile of about 2 volley shots to kill/cripple a battlesuit seemed ok (pending actual field use and how pw imagines it, of course). In the end most thought 10 tokens, 18shards/token and exoskeleton and +0 str requirement was acceptable. Some however thought a lower buying price might be better, and from that came the idea that 9 tokens, 15shards/token, exoskeleton and +1 str might also be good. In the end it seemed all council members could live with both options (though the general idea was that the first seemed better). But since nobody outright veto'd the second option, we figured we'd just let you decide which one you'd be happiest with. You can choose yourself whether full auto is locked away or not.

[syvarris]

I'd also prefer the first, 10 token version.  It seems odd that 3 shards/magazine, and a slightly higher str requirement, would be seen as a sufficient sacrifice to get a one-token discount.

I was never sure about full-auto, so I'd like others to comment on whether it's a good idea.  The primary reason I wanted to add it was sort of to return to old "secret functions" of equipment, where you'd have to research something and/or modify it to get full functionality.  I like the concept of people weighing whether to risk a handi roll to get automatic fire, or just playing things safe.  Plus, it does make sense from an in-universe perspective; automatic function on anything not intended for suppression is stupid.

On the other hand, mechanically, it's only nerfing the gun.  I dunno if that's worth making it slightly more interesting.


Also, when should it be added to the armory?  Should I wait until after M26 is over, and talk to piecewise?  Or should it just be added now?

[NAV]

Full auto 
Full auto but requires handiwork 
No full auto   

I will argue that the third option is logically impossible. It would just be the second option with a more difficult handiwork roll.

[syvarris]

...Third option?  I only gave two--Automatic fire being enabled on purchase, or being disabled and you'd need to mess with the gun to enable it.

Maybe the bit about "risk a handi roll to get automatic fire, or just playing things safe." confused you?  I meant that to be the player's choice, if automatic fire were disabled from the beginning.

And yeah, restricting a feature is odd.  I just liked how we used to have a lot of that sort of thing.  Currently, all special/hidden features are basically always known and available.  I'm really not sure if restricting automatic fire would make it a little more interesting, or just end up being annoying and stupid--hence why I'm asking.

[NAV]

I wasn't sure whether the "it" you were questioning whether or not to add was the handiwork roll or the full auto itself. Whatever it doesn't matter blame it on being really tired.

It would probably get annoying after a couple times.

I guess in exchange for open weapon documentation we lost the magic of discovery. Bonus features are still nice though even if they aren't hidden.

[Radio Controlled]

Will the fact of full auto option existing, and becoming available after modification, be mentioned on the wiki page? If yes, it seems like less of a hidden option, and more a formality people need to go through before getting the most potential out of their weapon. True, limiting full auto would limit things like 'spraying away ammo when in panic' in-universe, but I doubt pw would take it into account. I guess it'd mostly mean people buy one, then find the nearest handi-capable person to unlock it (who might be able to charge something, seeing as those people are few and far between, and the am isn't available).

[AoshimaMichio]

Universal Chem Thrower business. Posting here as a reminder for myself.

Between the ram and haebi acid latter is probably easier to produce on mission. One guy with haebi limb and food can refill any canister.
Either way, thrower tubes most likely need extra protection to handle acids. Perhaps separate one token upgrade for thrower to avoid price increase for people who don't care about acids. Whether that is forcefield and chem-off based is another question entirely. And since Ulrich has -2 handiwork, I SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT THIS! Someone else think it for me, please.

And Doomsday as civilian repellant option.

For both question of canister price still stands. Assuming standard 10 uses size.

[Radio Controlled]

Yeah, heabi acid seems like the better option between the two. I can look into the thrower upgrade (more thrower ammo types was on the to do list anyway, though not that high, I guess I can move it up) after this mission sometime, if you help me remember.

Why doomsday as civilian repellant though? Isn't sticky goop more suitable for dealing with non-cooperative civvies?

[AoshimaMichio]

Because with it you won't need separate spraycan to get them out or to get yourself new escape route because nothing was blocked in first place. Though Doomsday is better called flesh repellant, because flesh won't come back.

Seriously speaking, the war crimes we commit against civilians on frequent basis benefits having substance that outright melts civilians out of existance. A puddle of liquid is easier to handle than screaming and crying civilian.

[Radio Controlled]

True enough, though if permanently silencing civilians is your goal, it seems namite, or just about any weapon in the armory really, would do the trick. Unless you wanna get rid of the evidence to live out your dream of commiting the perfect unsolvable murder in a world where the coppers are the least of our worries (because we kill them if they're not). Either way, more ammo types don't actually hurt, so knock yourself out.