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Author Topic: Hephaestus OOC  (Read 168243 times)

Corsair

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1575 on: June 30, 2015, 07:59:01 pm »

It could be their opinion, it could not be: I'll let them speak for themselves, or let me speak on their behalf. I suspect that most of them are on roughly the same page as me, but I didn't want to state it as a fact.

I suppose the best way I can summarize it is: I don't think spending 2 tokens today should get you something that was priced at 5 tokens a month ago, or is equivalent to something that is priced at 5 tokens a month ago. Perhaps the better phrase would be 'token creep' instead of 'power creep'? A group of 5 today will almost certainly be stronger than a group of 5 near the start of the game, as some portion have survived multiple missions, with the experience and loot that comes with it. This sort of power progression seems natural.

Does that make sense?

But what about something that was priced 5 tokens a while ago? I agree that power inflation such that five tokens becomes two over the course of the month is a problem but we are meant to have a degree of advancement.
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Nikitian

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1576 on: June 30, 2015, 08:05:03 pm »

It could be their opinion, it could not be: I'll let them speak for themselves, or let me speak on their behalf. I suspect that most of them are on roughly the same page as me, but I didn't want to state it as a fact.

I suppose the best way I can summarize it is: I don't think spending 2 tokens today should get you something that was priced at 5 tokens a month ago, or is equivalent to something that is priced at 5 tokens a month ago. Perhaps the better phrase would be 'token creep' instead of 'power creep'? A group of 5 today will almost certainly be stronger than a group of 5 near the start of the game, as some portion have survived multiple missions, with the experience and loot that comes with it. This sort of power progression seems natural.

Does that make sense?
Ah, yes, that makes sense. Yeah, I can dig 'token creep'. Just to make sure: does a less 'ludicrously' steep progression also sound wrong to you? E.g., 4 tokens for a new item that is roughly equivalent to 5-token one from some time ago (or maybe even 3.5 tokens for that new - i.e. 7 for an item comparable to 10-token one from before)?
(Because artifacts get discovered, new tech and tinker designs (better/more efficient ones) developed, etc.)
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Hapah

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1577 on: July 01, 2015, 10:10:39 am »

But what about something that was priced 5 tokens a while ago? I agree that power inflation such that five tokens becomes two over the course of the month is a problem but we are meant to have a degree of advancement.
Are we? And I'm not being snarky or anything, this is an honest question.

Just to make sure: does a less 'ludicrously' steep progression also sound wrong to you? E.g., 4 tokens for a new item that is roughly equivalent to 5-token one from some time ago (or maybe even 3.5 tokens for that new - i.e. 7 for an item comparable to 10-token one from before)?
(Because artifacts get discovered, new tech and tinker designs (better/more efficient ones) developed, etc.)
Don't like it, that's correct. Some small amount is probably inevitable, though.

I also wonder what would happen if the token power curve went the other way, with projects getting diminishing returns the more expensive they got. I haven't given it much thought, but it  could be interesting.
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Parisbre56

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1578 on: July 01, 2015, 10:19:27 am »

Hey, Nik, you're doing a mission? Are you going to take your people for a ride in your Stealth Mini Sword to go rescue lost schoolgirls from that university? ("Dagger"? "Black Dagger"? "Hidden blade"? "скрытые меч"? Would be fun if the SMS had a name that related to a blade.)

EDIT: Oh, wait, you said you had no knowledge of this in the other OOC. Thought you planned all this in secret PMs or in IRC or something.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 10:35:25 am by Parisbre56 »
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Toaster

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1579 on: July 01, 2015, 10:37:14 am »

Stiletto.
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Nikitian

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1580 on: July 01, 2015, 10:45:34 am »

I had planned... a lot. For a (mini) mission run by/with Hephaestians. The problem is, since now it's going to be a Sword mission (or maybe a "convicts detachment" mission like that with the Ghostship pacification?), I have no idea how these plans are going to be integrated into the new mission parameters.
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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1581 on: July 01, 2015, 10:48:24 am »

Could always talk to piecewise about it. Get him in a private chat in IRC or a PM or something. See if you can't at least give him some ideas, if you can't do more.

Or just wait for the briefing and then decide. Maybe it will be like a black ops mission, where you're just given an objective and some resources and you have to plan the rest yourself.

Nikitian

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1582 on: July 01, 2015, 10:58:04 am »

You see, apparently, Maurice will be doing the briefing. And then mission planning. And setting the objectives in the first place.
It's like being Steve, Milno and his Rookie at the same time! :P


Fear not, of course. Everything will be sorted out and dealt with in due time. I have a new mission planning bar to set. This mission will be perfect. I promise.
It will not be allowed to go wrong.
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Nikitian kneels in front of his computer, fresh lamb's blood on his hands, and prays to the dark powers for answers about armor thickness.

AoshimaMichio

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1583 on: July 01, 2015, 11:28:18 am »

You see, apparently, Maurice will be doing the briefing. And then mission planning. And setting the objectives in the first place.
It's like being Steve, Milno and his Rookie at the same time! :P


Fear not, of course. Everything will be sorted out and dealt with in due time. I have a new mission planning bar to set. This mission will be perfect. I promise.
It will not be allowed to go wrong.

That's boring. Failure must be always be option.
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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1584 on: July 01, 2015, 11:38:05 am »

You see, apparently, Maurice will be doing the briefing. And then mission planning. And setting the objectives in the first place.
It's like being Steve, Milno and his Rookie at the same time! :P


Fear not, of course. Everything will be sorted out and dealt with in due time. I have a new mission planning bar to set. This mission will be perfect. I promise.
It will not be allowed to go wrong.
That's boring. Failure must be always be option.
He tempted fate. They are doomed now.
DOOOOMED!

Nikitian

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1585 on: July 01, 2015, 07:16:24 pm »

This is a PTW. Ignore the PTW. I was always watching this Thread.
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
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Nikitian kneels in front of his computer, fresh lamb's blood on his hands, and prays to the dark powers for answers about armor thickness.

Parisbre56

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1586 on: July 01, 2015, 07:30:31 pm »

Hey, can someone who knows what the MCP-II does write a short description for the armoury? Or can I just put this in the armoury?

That is, if it's an approved armoury item now. Asking because I'd like to know its price and capabilities and I can't find anything official in the wiki.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1587 on: July 01, 2015, 08:15:01 pm »

Hoo boy.

Okay, so I won't respond to everything, and just start from pw's announcement. If there's anything one would still like to see me answer from before that for whatever reason, you can still ask (or better yet, pm it).

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3. Anyone who designs a weapon and puts it in the armory, regardless of if they're from heph or not, will get 25% of all money spent by people buying that weapon or tool, and any ammo or other things directly associated with it. We'll even round up for you. With this money you CAN buy things from the ship and do stuff like that. I hope it motivates you to create things guaranteed to sell. Things everyone will want.

I suppose this doesn't count for 1-token things, and while it counts for new purchases of old designs, it doesn't for old purchases?

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4. I'm giving more power and control to the council, and looking for one more member, to ease the burden on the existing council. I want to essentially give the council the veto or acceptance power for new weapons and tech on a balance perspective. In other words,  the stuff with Sy that I've been doing, the materials science and all, or any experiments or that sort of thing would be handled by me, but things like the number of shots a weapon would have, the price, the size, etc would be handled, for the most part, by the council. So me for science, them for applications of what that science discovers. And of course I would have ultimate accept or veto and probably be consulted on anything they can't figure out.

*Initiate Phase 2*

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How will we talk to the council for designs?  Posting marked actions in the Heph thread, and we get responses through PW?  Or will we be doing the old method, where we discuss things with Radio and the council speaks through him?

Initially with the council, I wanted to maintain full anonymity and work via pw, but that was so slow it really didn't work out. So, via me or hapah sounds best, I guess?

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I, on the other hand, foresee that between the Council being full of metaphorical realism sharks, and apparently our future effectiveness being dependent on building things that sell, the future of our Armory is going to be fairly gray. Or brown and bloom, as it were.

If you don't design something to sell in the armory, and not something vague for background stuff, then what would you be designing anyway? Intentional armory clutter, so to speak?

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I'm personally more concerned about the concept of balance as a whole in this game. I was under the impression that our job is to tip the scales as far into our own favor as possible, and if it doesn't conform to previous pricing patterns, then so be it, because the UWM would still be doing R&D for their own military and that balance would occur out of Red Queen Hypothesis (we make better or cheaper gear, so too does the UWM, so even though the quality of the equipment increases, there is no relative gain) more than us overpricing new equipment that we could mass produce relatively cheaply if necessary.

It's less "you cannot have an improved laser rifle for the same two tokens as before" and more "no, you cannot have that battlesuit for three tokens" I'd think.

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3) What precisely qualifies as a developed item? For example, referencing some of my discussions with you, would Skylar's light-robolimb count, but not the ordinary limbs/organs I asked the AM about?

Hmm. Maybe only items that are clearly 'newly developed'? So yes for an assault suit, no for an AS variant perhaps?

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Okay, in my capacity as Deputy Admin of Engineering, I have to make this statement:

Even though the current prototype system is being abolished, the Admin of Engineering reserves the right of final judgement on admittance of a design to the armory list, after the GM's and the Council's approval.
This is the sacred right that I inherited from my predecessor, and this is how I shall pass it on (return to him) when the time comes.

AKA an IC check after the OOC checks?

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- Avatars of War now cost 50 tokens to allow an appropriate price gap between them and other gear.

Payment plans hoo! Here's hoping I don't default on my debt!

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Congratulations to the council, you have solved the "possible overcreation of suit variants" problem by making it so that there is absolutely no reason to ever buy a variant suit. ever.

Why thank you, we try our best.

But seriously, we shouldn't bury the body before the coroner has had his chance! Let's first give it some time and see where this goes.

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I support the idea of increasing the gradient of token values (like doubling every token value across the board) to allow finer tuning.

I proposed, waaay before, multiplying all the tokens by ten. Easy, just putting a zero behind every armory item and inventory total, and now you have more leeway. If nothing else, it could stimulate inter player economy.

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I hate power creep.

Understandable. PW has said though we are supposed to increase in tech (and thus, power) over time to keep up and give an edge. But getting a laser rifle of +5 lazering for the price or a regular laser rifle is still in the same 'power' category as before. Another way to see it perhaps: it's ok for a newbie running around with weapons more powerful than what newbies had at ER start. But that doesn't mean we should have 0-mission newbs running around as giant robot overlords because the new battlesuit suddenly only costs 5 tokens.


Sean, if you still want the pyramid, the team fund can buy it for you probably.

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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1588 on: July 02, 2015, 02:47:39 am »

Where do I make my Prototype Kit report?
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus OOC
« Reply #1589 on: July 02, 2015, 02:52:41 am »

In the main Heph thread or the on-ship thread, I think. Maybe both, depending on whom you are giving the report to.
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