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[Parisbre56]

Just want to remind you that if the space magic facility gets destroyed, it's very likely to take the solar system with it. Even if it doesn't, it will be a loss of priceless and irreplaceable equipment. So it might be better to keep it in the inner solar system to make it more defensible, if you can manage that. Maybe even planet 1 or one of Hephaestus' moons, if you can (I assume the planet is not going to retain its gravitational pull after being compressed due to space magic. Otherwise, anyone working on building that thing might need some gravity protection automanips.)

[syvarris]

@Kri's Hephaestus Science page

Sorry for the near unreadability of the Heph page.  I made most of the structure of that page as-needed, and I guess it's ended up being a bit of a mess.  Despite that, please don't overhaul the Heph page itself without PMing me or something first; A good amount of it is organized for me to easily update, and it would be nice to not have things changed without warning.  I do agree that it should be improved though.

Thanks for the research page.  Would you mind if I change it to be less of an overview, and more of a central data dump for the materials?  Or do you think that would be better on a different page?  I just think it would be nice to have all the relevant information for, say, hexbug or sharkmist, on a single wiki page.  Right now all the info is spread across a bunch of unconnected links and posts.

@BB guns

These are all good and seem mostly balanced, but I have two concerns.  First, shouldn't they all have more options for intensity?  I see no reason the rifle shouldn't be able to fire at standard lasrifle power when needed.  Second, could we add something like a 'Blaster Carbine', which outright replaces the old laser rifle?  Or possibly downgrade the blaster rifle to replace it?  I'm not sure about other people, but I dislike how the armory is progressively cluttered with more and more varied weapons, and old things are virtually never removed.  It's probably really overwhelming to a newbie, not to mention that we keep stuff which is essentially worthless for us now (like the gauss cannon or tesla arc).

@Paris

I was under the impression that we'd move the planetary mass afterwards, somehow.  PW initially said we could put it on Heph's surface, so it must be mobile.

Also we're building it on an asteroid sitting in a lagrange point near Heph.  The one that's colinear with the sun and planet, but not between them.  L5 or L3 I believe.   Nope, checked and we're actually putting it on a moon.  Apparently I didn't record which moon.  Oops.

[Nikitian]

@syv Could we please keep the research page as overview? I agree that dumping data in one place should be done, and that it deserves a page of its own (or maybe a section of the current page), but the way it is the research page is super useful for organising the future research and telling at a glance what needs to be done next.

On Blas-weapons: actually, it appears that the Blaspistol is completely replacing the laser rifle of the old. It's cheaper (1vs2), holds up to about same amount of shots, and makes both lasrifle and handlaser obsolete. And the Blifle is actually more of a 'cheap' variant for the cutting laser, than the lasrifle; between Blifle and Raduga (and possibly Spektr) the good old cutting laser is also nigh-obsolete.
But I agree that maybe some variation settings should be included, like intensity and diffusion knobs of the old - only this time descending from the default energy output, rather than the opposite.

[Kriellya]

@Kri's Hephaestus Science page

Sorry for the near unreadability of the Heph page.  I made most of the structure of that page as-needed, and I guess it's ended up being a bit of a mess.  Despite that, please don't overhaul the Heph page itself without PMing me or something first; A good amount of it is organized for me to easily update, and it would be nice to not have things changed without warning.  I do agree that it should be improved though.

Thanks for the research page.  Would you mind if I change it to be less of an overview, and more of a central data dump for the materials?  Or do you think that would be better on a different page?  I just think it would be nice to have all the relevant information for, say, hexbug or sharkmist, on a single wiki page.  Right now all the info is spread across a bunch of unconnected links and posts.

Thing the 1st: I only changed 2 things on the general Heph page.
1) I moved the raw description of the Heph planetary system off of the Heph page, as the description of the planetary system was just taking up premium space in the page summary
2) I added a link to the new science page, down in the goals section. I have not removed anything else from the heph page, just copied things over to the science page (mostly from the artifact page)

Thing the 2nd: That is the intention. The current setup is a framework. However, I am not qualified to centralize the data. I have no idea where it all is
I would make a separate page on each project, with a short summary of results on the main Science page and a link to the full results/references of the project research. This will keep the Science page from being too cluttered to read, while keeping all the data accessible.

If one of you wants to provide me with a data-dump with referrences to Posts and IRC chats on each of the research projects, I can compile them into the research page.

[syvarris]

Ah, I know you didn't change anything serious on the Heph page.  I was referring to this:

splitting walls of text into readable and findable subunits. I need to do a pass on the Heph page with this in mind...

I wasn't sure exactly what this meant, as far as scope, so I figured asking would be a good idea.  I didn't think you'd do anything bad, but there's no harm in making sure.  I do appreciate what you're doing.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The lasrifle and the hand laser are still not obsoleted, much less the cutting laser. The handlaser is probably the closest to obsoletion, but as a sidearm that doesn't use ammo and doesn't take up a hand, I think it's useful still. The lasrifle has an important leg up on the blaster pistol - it can cut, and it can be hooked up to a generator for unlimited power, whereas the blaster is dependent on the sheer energy throughput of the bluerad batteries. Same with the cutting laser, although the Raduga is much closer to obsoleting that because it provides more functions, not less, with the only thing keeping the CL competitive being the lower cost.

[Kriellya]

Ah, I know you didn't change anything serious on the Heph page.  I was referring to this:

splitting walls of text into readable and findable subunits. I need to do a pass on the Heph page with this in mind...

I wasn't sure exactly what this meant, as far as scope, so I figured asking would be a good idea.  I didn't think you'd do anything bad, but there's no harm in making sure.  I do appreciate what you're doing.

Yeah, I haven't done this yet, and really can't by myself. The organization is not that bad, there's just some things we might improve by relocating it to its own page. The only section that needs a serious overhaul is the stockpile, which has an odd mixture of artifacts, research results, and personal items.

[Radio Controlled]

@BB guns

These are all good and seem mostly balanced, but I have two concerns.  First, shouldn't they all have more options for intensity?  I see no reason the rifle shouldn't be able to fire at standard lasrifle power when needed.  Second, could we add something like a 'Blaster Carbine', which outright replaces the old laser rifle?  Or possibly downgrade the blaster rifle to replace it?  I'm not sure about other people, but I dislike how the armory is progressively cluttered with more and more varied weapons, and old things are virtually never removed.  It's probably really overwhelming to a newbie, not to mention that we keep stuff which is essentially worthless for us now (like the gauss cannon or tesla arc).

It's not a bad idea, and I've certainly considered it. There's several reasons really.
1) It'd be an extra feature, and since I already got a feature for free (the overcharge) I don't wanna push it too far.
2) If the blifle can fire at laser rifle power, then you'll have people hooking up a rifle shard to a pistol, giving much more ammo for the same price.
3) Balance. This is kinda subjective of course, but I feel that a 4 token weapon that fires cutting laser power shots and can safely overcharge should have a decent drawback. Ammo cost would be the main thing here. But if that can be circumvented through lower power shots, I kinda feel it might be somewhat OP. That might just be me though.

Still, if other people don't think it'd be OP, I might be needlessly limiting myself here. Hmm. I'll consider it, but if it does become a feature, I'll give distinct intensities rather than a knob. If only to go easy on whoever has to keep track of ammo. Though if you present ammo as a % of total battery shot, and say max is 20%... hmm.


As for the carbine, I dunno. I agree armory clutter should be avoided, but does that mean we should outright remove old things? Seems a bit too far in the other direction.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I think the fluff-wise explanation for a fixed power level is that the rifle's (and the bazooka's) pumping method and lasing medium are specifically picked for operating at the chosen power level, just like they can't fire continuously. There's a thing called "lasing threshold", and you could say that these weapons use tougher materials with a higher threshold in order to pack more power into a smaller package. You can pump more power into them, which they'll be able to make use of (albeit with excessive heating), but using less power will fail to produce a laser beam.

As far as balance, I think the blasters are already in the right place in regards to what should be allowed. The only reason why the Blaster Rifle is not overpowered, with its low cost, small size, and comparable power, is because a Cutting Laser can do more things - it has utility besides blasting things. Limiting utility is the only way to keep the rifle balanced.

[Nikitian]

Actually, why should we want the lasrifle/handlaser for "cutting"? Cutting torch can already do that superbly; and if you just have to have it as your hand instead of in it, you can always pick Anton's Special Red Hand And Spektr is already your basic lasrifle with a generator. Actually, maybe it could also be decreased in price down to same 4 tokens, if anything. That would put it in line with the new blifle and Testament shardrifle. Don't know about decreasing the price of Raduga, though (maybe yes, but don't know how much); should look into that separately.

I now see the problem with allowing to decrease the power of blifle, and I agree that maybe it's best to leave it as is; still, I think the option for greater diffusion could be allowed at no cost or penalties - it was there from the beginning, and this time we might finally enjoy the use of "laser shotgun" shots with much increased energy output.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Not that kind of "cutting", although the Handlaser is definitely more suited to the noncombat use.

With a lasrifle or cutting laser, you can sweep the beam. You can slice off limbs, hit several targets with one attack. If a cutting laser sweep hits you, you're going to need a whole roll of duct tape to become whole again. A blaster rifle pulse might blow a fist-sized hole through your abdomen, or blast a limb off, but its area of effect is limited. That's the limitation in utility. High power against single targets only.

I'm all for a "shotgun" mode though. "A crowd" qualifies as a single target sometimes too.

[Radio Controlled]

Hmm, diffusion knob should be doable without compromising balance. I'd again be more for something like 3 discrete modes than a slider, since it's not like 12 and 13% makes a difference, and it'll be easier for pw to know what mode does what and to actually incorporate this into in-game effects.

standard: normal power, range and hit surface
diffuse (close range/energy shotgun): lower power (per cm² that's hit), lower range, larger hit surface
focused(longer range/sniper mode): higher power, longer range, lower hit surface.

[Parisbre56]

Hmmm... I imagine this laser having enough power to near-instantly vaporise a large amount of material. Would that rapid vaporisation and expansion of gases cause something like explosive damage?

[Sean Mirrsen]

It would, yeah. I think that's why they're "blasters". They don't burn holes per se, they make craters. It's another reason why the PEW's and the Blaster Bazooka's niches don't overlap much besides "blow up armored things". The PEW is a surgical tool in comparison to what the BB does.

[Nikitian]

Now that I think of it... what if we give the blifle, say, 25% (or 33%, or 50%) power mode? And say it's the lowest possible, with lasing threshold and all. I mean that even 25% of a cutting laser power is heads and shoulders above laser rifle power; remember, even at 10x setting lasrifle was lacking behind cutting laser.

As for discrete modes - I like your idea, RC, but if I got it right (standard setting is about the standard diffusion of a laser rifle, right?), we might prefer to add a fourth option - "highly diffused" or something. If standard setting is to leave crater holes, and shotgun-setting is to leave bigger crater holes (but still not wide enough to threaten multiple targets), this one is to leave large (if shallower) crater holes - something halfway between a shotgun and a blunderbuss. Something for cases where large wound/area coverage is imperative, and target's laser resistance is lacking - say, for hunting for a really big xenos game (or, as Sean put it, a  single "crowd" target).