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Founders should have a fixed number of useable tiles to own!

5 (29.4%)

Founders should be awarded more tiles to build on by popular consensus!

6 (35.3%)

No hard limits, just be reasonable!

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 10

[Broseph Stalin]

Just out of curiosity, what is the desired course of action when the dwarven trade liason starts getting insistent about selecting a baron?

Also, having a population a net-worth greater than certain thresholds will also destroy the village status. At what point do we start "4-F'ing" migrants?

We do what anyone would do, depend on the low tax-regimes and relaxed policing standards of an island nation.

"We can't be a fortress because this land is a barony of the Ray Islands and they do things a little differently there - this is our baron  he's totally a baron we can't find the commission but we'll send you a copy. We're still a village under their laws and if you want to argue you can familiarize yourself with this fifty pound stack of legal documents, oh sorry your expected back at the Mountainhalls? See you in a year after we've explored more loopholes and hid all of our gold in dozens of foreign banks."


Also poll locked. Very close 6-5-4 race with the Pickled Plum beating out the Hawk Blocker and the Charlatan's retreat as the name for our pub.

[Broseph Stalin]

Fourth Journal Entry of Koreg Hawkblockades Slate 28

The tavern is done but we're still working on furniture. I placed my figurine on a plinth in the dining area to make it seem a bit nicer. I considered a brief ceremony but I've decided such superstitions may alarm my confederates and it's not as though I'm a believer anyway. I think these trees are making me a bit edgy. They're enormous, I can't even imagine the age and unique conditions this forest would need to grow to these impossible heights. I'm not sleeping well. I have dreams of moose taller than buildings and bears that eat handfuls of dwarves at a time. We've named the pub the Pickled Plum. It sounds like a fine name especially considering that Wierd is so unskilled at farming that picking plums when they ripen will probably be our primary source of drink. He's still a cretin but this is not the worst state of affairs I've ever seen.


Fifth  Journal Entry of Koreg Hawkblockades Felsite 9

[The following is written in a shaky hand.]

The rumors are true.

Spoiler: The Beast (click to show/hide)

I awoke to loud thud and the shaking of branches, on instinct I went outside to help HugoLuman with the newly felled tree but I only pure terror stopped me from screaming at what I saw. When I looked across field I saw a massive owl drinking from the stream. I thought it was just early morning haze clouding my mind but the others quickly corroborated my account. I've become quite skilled at judging size from all this fortr [the paper has badly torn where the writer angrily scratched this out] village planning. It was about six feet tall when it stood and it's wingspan was nearly twenty feet. I'd hoped to postpone it for as long as possible but there's no other choice, the rite must be preformed now before it's whole bloody parliament show up and swallow this village whole.

[WillowLuman]

Miner + Axeman time? Though then again, there's the "squads need 10 people" rule.

[Broseph Stalin]

Miner + Axeman time? Though then again, there's the "squads need 10 people" rule.

That rule only says that "militia captain" can be treated as a noble position but only when a squad is full. 

[Broseph Stalin]

I'm desiging Noble Estates right now what does everybody think of this basic model?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[evictedSaint]

Thats a huuuuuge tract of land for one dwarf. 15x15 tiles???  Besides, i figured we'd design our own estate and not really stick to a model (though z level restriction will still be honored).

Maybe we should limit the floor space of any noble estate to 81 or 100 or 121 tiles or so (maybe even increasing with their rank? But DEFINITELY no more than 121, max (and thats still very generous).  Otherwise, our entire map will consist solely of noble estates).  That way, they can still build a unique estate, but it doesnt have to be square or standard.

[WillowLuman]

Yeah, 11x11 might be better. Though towers might be as "unvillage-ey" as building underground, at some point we're going to have to rely on Z levels, I think. Also, what purpose serves the ballista on the roof?

[pisskop]

well, it looks cool, even if it wont hit anything off its zlevel!

I think that we shouldnt out a hard cap on building size, but ask that it bereasonable.  for instance, the baron/duke/king will have the largest building.  Most nobles will have a room the size of the tavern.  etc.  Most of the regular workers dont need more than a 3x3 space (so 5x5 housing), etc.

[wierd]

Indeed.. I'd be more apt to install pressure plate activated glass discs of doom instead of a ballista.  Ballistae require an operator, and unless all the notables end up with seige operating skill, they wont hit shit. Besides, being on the roof puts the ballista at an even greater disadvantage for actually hitting anything.

I do like that there is enough room for farm plots, and possibly for a random tree to grow.  While we cant actively plant trees yet, we can allow them sufficient space to grow of their own accord, and can hedge the bets in our favor by examining the saplings, and if we dont like the kind, putting a floor on top then deconstructing to remove the sapling.  This lets us get a round-about way of getting a backyard fruit or nut tree. Since such trees only eat 1x1 tile (usually), they can co-exist with a farm plot nicely.

I dont mind too much, but worries about running out of space in which to build the resulting urban sprawl is a valid concern. However, such civil planning is usually unheard of in actual village evolution.

[evictedSaint]

That may be, but irl villages usually have more room to expand.  In our game, we can't due to the borders. 

I vote that:
peasant (non-notable average dwarf) has 25 tiles of floor space
citizen (non-notable player character) gets 49 tiles 
minor notable gets 81
major notable gets 100
king ()  gets 121

[WillowLuman]

Perhaps replace the ballista with a catapult? That way the height is an advantage.

[Timeless Bob]

What you need are "zoning laws", with parcels of land requiring a certain amount of riches or influence to be sent up the chain to the Mountainhomes.  Now, obviously, a "homesteading initiative" drew these villagers out here in the first place, so each of the seven "freeholders" would be given a parcel of land (or two parcels for the expedition leader), to divide as they see fit.  1x1 embarks are 48x48 squares (2,304 total), so you can easily find out how many squares of land exist on the map by multiplying the number of embark squares by 2,304.  This would also give you guys an idea about having a basic economy, because the ability to use "squares of land" could be bought and sold in-forum for relative riches. (Which is basically what the feudal economy was founded on anyway, so this works in-theme too.)  Rights to the use of land would of course be more or less worthy if they've been "improved" or are still just vacant lots, so the ownership of some land would be "worth more" than the ownership of other ones.  After all, rent is just buying a limited use of a specific size of property, so each "plot" of land might have to have it's "use-rights" bought before it could be used - first from the Mountainhome via caravan tribute (offered as a gift to the caravan) and later from land-owners who have bought use-rights.  That would keep the "sprawl" from happening too quickly - not until somedwarf or other was able to create enough of a surplus to buy more parcels from the Mountainhome or had goods they could trade "in rent" to some other land-owner to buy use-rights to other parcels of land.

[Broseph Stalin]

Well the general idea was that the vast majority of the land would be owned by a very small number of people, the industries would be integrated into the property, and that the shlubs would be forced to live on increasingly claustrophobic smatterings of unclaimed turf.
No matter, three new space efficient designs:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[evictedSaint]

-snip-

This is actually a really good idea.  Shall we say each of the seven gets 64 squares (or however many we vote on as a fair amount) for their own private development, as well as minor notable status?  More property can be granted if they produce something worthy (arming a garrison with freshly smithed weapons, clearing the woods and clearing the land for development, successfully negotiating a trade deal, etc.  We can vote on worthiness in the thread), or if they rise in notability status, or if they get a lease/rent it.

How big was our embark area, by the way?

-snip-

That doesn't make me think of a village/town, though.  It makes me think of a monarchy.

We came to this land because we believed that every dwarf deserved the opportunity to make a living based on their own hard work.  No dwarf should be taxed; the fruits of a dwarf's labor is his and his alone!  It's in the very name of our humble town, "Nevertaxed"!  Doesn't the vast majority of dwarves paying rent to the few landowners recreate the very same thing we sought to escape?!

[Broseph Stalin]

This is actually a really good idea.  Shall we say each of the seven gets 64 squares (or however many we vote on as a fair amount) for their own private development, as well as minor notable status?  More property can be granted if they produce something worthy (arming a garrison with freshly smithed weapons, clearing the woods and clearing the land for development, successfully negotiating a trade deal, etc.  We can vote on worthiness in the thread), or if they rise in notability status, or if they get a lease/rent it.

How big was our embark area, by the way?

 36,864, I'd already measured it out the stupid way. You can shift+direction 19 times with from one side to another with one tile left so that's 192^2 and 2304*16 confirms. Land as a reward based on character performance is literally the most awesome thing I've heard all day. We could all start with 50 squares (25 for being citizens x2 multiplier for being our fantastic selves) then stake out our claims on the site map.

That doesn't make me think of a village/town, though.  It makes me think of a monarchy.

We came to this land because we believed that every dwarf deserved the opportunity to make a living based on their own hard work.  No dwarf should be taxed; the fruits of a dwarf's labor is his and his alone!  It's in the very name of our humble town, "Nevertaxed"!  Doesn't the vast majority of dwarves paying rent to the few landowners recreate the very same thing we sought to escape?!

I personally came for the anarchocapitalist land grab but it occurs to me that a large property holding might attract the attention of the IRS.