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[Mechanixm]

I have a number of stockpiles where I have forbidden bins, and they keep getting used. I haven't done the dumping thing yet but I deeply regret running barrels and bins on repeat at the carpenter's workshop, I didn't realize it would cause so many problems.

The number 1 tip I give new players is to learn how to play without using Bins. 

[Larix]

Stockpile options before separation:
finished goods
bins: as many as it takes
items: crafts (rings, amulets, figurines etc.)
materials: all
qualities: all

Everything and both artefacts stuffed in a bin

Reset pile to disallow the artefacts:
removed permission for "total quality: artefact"

Made receiving pile:
finished goods stockpile
no bins
items: all
materials: all
core quality: all
total quality: artefact only

Both artefacts removed from the bin and placed in the receiving pile. Same for weapon artefacts (both crafted and named) in .34.11, craft artefacts in another .34.11 and another .40.16 fort. Also works when both core and total quality specify artefact only for the receiving and no artefacts for the giving pile, also works when artefacts not in bins etc.

No stockpile links, no burrows, plentiful idlers, short hauling paths, no quantum stockpiles, no dfhack (it's .40.16; i even downloaded dfhack to countercheck, but it can only handle .40.15, so it died and crashed dwarf fortress; gee thanks -> delete).

[utunnels]

What if you move the bin to a new stockpile then change the setting to no allow any bins?

[Mechanixm]

What if you move the bin to a new stockpile then change the setting to no allow any bins?

This, definitely, doesnt work.

[Mechanixm]

Stockpile options before separation:
finished goods
bins: as many as it takes
items: crafts (rings, amulets, figurines etc.)
materials: all
qualities: all

Everything and both artefacts stuffed in a bin

Reset pile to disallow the artefacts:
removed permission for "total quality: artefact"

Made receiving pile:
finished goods stockpile
no bins
items: all
materials: all
core quality: all
total quality: artefact only

Both artefacts removed from the bin and placed in the receiving pile. Same for weapon artefacts (both crafted and named) in .34.11, craft artefacts in another .34.11 and another .40.16 fort. Also works when both core and total quality specify artefact only for the receiving and no artefacts for the giving pile, also works when artefacts not in bins etc.

No stockpile links, no burrows, plentiful idlers, short hauling paths, no quantum stockpiles, no dfhack (it's .40.16; i even downloaded dfhack to countercheck, but it can only handle .40.15, so it died and crashed dwarf fortress; gee thanks -> delete).

I see three differences between our two setups

1- I'm using weapons and you're using finished goods.  Hopefully that won't matter.
2- You appear to have many bins while I only have a single bin in my entire fortress.  Again, hopefully that wont matter.
3- Your receiver stockpile has "core quality: all" and "total quality: artefact only" while I am using artifact only for both settings.

I am hoping that number three there is the secret setting that I've been missing.  I'll give it a shot once this siege is over and I put my daughter to bed.

[Mechanixm]

It's not working.

here is the 1x1 stockpile with my bin that has weapons and artifacts in it:



here is the larger weapons stockpile set to take from the other stockpile and from links only.
it has these settings, which are what I was hoping would be the deciding factor:
core quality: all
total quality: artifact only




when we let the game run...nothing happens. 

[Larix]

I copied your setup as best as i could and finally managed to break it! Yay!

The one thing that broke it for me was making the target pile exclusive, i.e. setting the "a" - will take from links only option. This breaks inter-stockpile transport for _everything_, as far as i can tell. With this set-up (source pile linked to give to target pile, "a" set to exclusive), the artefacts would sit in the source pile untouched, in the bin or outside of it. As counter-test, there was also an un-binned well-crafted totem in the pile which had slipped in there before i fixed the options to forbid totems. Allowing this type of totem in the target pile would also not get the totem moved as long as the target pile was "a"-exclusive for the link.
Toggling "a" to "takes from anywhere" got both artefacts (and the totem) moved.

I messed around with it quite a bit and it really seems to be the "a" option. Seems that "a" is broken when dealing with stockpile-stockpile links.

Edit: exclusive stockpiles accept stuff from linked stockpiles only if it can be stuffed in a bin in the process. Not useful for the purpose, but narrows down the bug some more: when trying to move binnable items to a no-bins stockpile, making the target stockpile exclusive (ordering it to only accept from links) prevents transport. This behaviour also only seems to apply for stockpile-stockpile transport. Moving from a workshop to a bin-less stockpile via exclusive link works.

[terminalmonky]

You guys are awesome.  An inspiration to a newb like me.  Thanks for testing on all this.

[Mechanixm]

I copied your setup as best as i could and finally managed to break it! Yay!

The one thing that broke it for me was making the target pile exclusive, i.e. setting the "a" - will take from links only option. This breaks inter-stockpile transport for _everything_, as far as i can tell. With this set-up (source pile linked to give to target pile, "a" set to exclusive), the artefacts would sit in the source pile untouched, in the bin or outside of it. As counter-test, there was also an un-binned well-crafted totem in the pile which had slipped in there before i fixed the options to forbid totems. Allowing this type of totem in the target pile would also not get the totem moved as long as the target pile was "a"-exclusive for the link.
Toggling "a" to "takes from anywhere" got both artefacts (and the totem) moved.

I messed around with it quite a bit and it really seems to be the "a" option. Seems that "a" is broken when dealing with stockpile-stockpile links.

Edit: exclusive stockpiles accept stuff from linked stockpiles only if it can be stuffed in a bin in the process. Not useful for the purpose, but narrows down the bug some more: when trying to move binnable items to a no-bins stockpile, making the target stockpile exclusive (ordering it to only accept from links) prevents transport. This behaviour also only seems to apply for stockpile-stockpile transport. Moving from a workshop to a bin-less stockpile via exclusive link works.

Nope...tried that a lot...

I have an entire room of stockpiles set to take from anywhere that accept all qualities of items.  So, even when I change the settings of that stockpile that my bin is sitting on, absolutely nothing happens.  My one bin is sitting on a 1x1 Weapon Stockpile, that has had Artifact Quality items removed from it, but the Bin stills sits there and no one comes and removes the Artifacts.



...until...I set another Stockpile somewhere in my fort, that allows bins.  At that point, the Bin in its entirety is carried to the new stockpile.  The items never leave the bin.

[Larix]

Edit: found yet another case where un-binning breaks:
if items were in a bin that got forbidden/reclaimed or that ended up in a stockpile with no (more) bins allowed, the bin will _no longer be considered part of the stockpile_ (no longer listed "finished goods bin <#5>", where #5 means Stockpile #5) and the same will hold for its contents - they will no longer consult the stockpile settings to see whether they're in the right place or not. Furthermore, items will _never_ be removed from such a bin to bring it to a stockpile. Once the bin with items has been transplanted to a pile and is again considered stockpile content, items can be drawn from it via quality/material/etc. settings. Just remember not to set bins in the source pile to zero!

You could try it with that other, new stockpile with the binned stuff: set the pile to no longer accept the artefacts you want moved, leave the bins setting intact (verify that the bin counts as stockpile content), give one artefact-accepting bin-less pile as target.

PS: wow, that's some cracked-up stuff going on there!

[Mechanixm]

What you described is basically what I have going on up above in my post with the three screenshots.

The initial stockpile with my bin is enabled to have 1 bin, it's a 1x1 weapon stockpile, and it's enabled for all items, materials, and qualities.

No manner of giving or taking from that stockpile will work if the target stockpile is set for 0 Bins. 

It will work if I set the target stockpile to ACCEPT bins...but then they just haul the bin over, with the artifacts still inside the bin, which leaves me right where I started from.

If we could just Dump artifacts, none of this would be an issue.

[Larix]

Can you upload your save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ or somewhere like that? These are the only two cases i could find where un-binning of items broke (incidentally, applies to non-artefacts as well, but as you said, those can easily forced out of bins via dumping). As far as i could see, the three-screenshot situation broke because the receiving pile was apparently "take only from links" and the more recent because the giving stockpile was zero bins (and thus caused the bin/items to not be considered part of the stockpile). I could try digging up one of my .40.11 saves for comparison, set up a stockpile pair and post that, but my current main .40.17 saves aren't backwards compatible.

Forbidding artefacts will also prevent their individual movement. It won't show as {item} braces, but it's still very observable - the "f" option in item view changes to "claim", and no such thing was visible in the screenshots, so i don't think that's happening.

Finally, _some_ add-on could misbehave, but i wouldn't know which add-on this could be (DFHack seems to have no problems) and why.

[Mechanixm]

Here is the save:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10105

The bin is located in a pile of forbidden items at the top of the screen on z84.

I figured out a way to retrieve the items though.

I placed the weapon bin, that contains the stuck artifacts, in a minecart and then used the old minecart shotgun trick.

When the Bin hits the wall, all the items fall out.

Here is the aftermath:



Issue resolved, IMO.

[Larix]

For me, the issue was mainly what kept the items in the bin after some point.

I suspect there's something weird in your setup, possibly some utility or other. In the given state, the weapons will indeed not budge from the bin, even after moving the save to a clean unmodded installation. But after dredging them out via equip/unequip, i could get them re-binned and un-binned (in unmodded .40.18).

It _could_ be something caused by the liberal automated item and job handling of the various plug-ins, but that'd be absurdly hard to track down. Definitely no user error or wrong procedure, something in your installation just breaks the normal behaviour.

Seems that for users of the various mods, the roundabout tricks are necessary.

[smeeprocket]

man my dwarves need to make multiple artifact weapons, all they make are ropes and rings and such. One made a single bracer one time, out of bone.