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[Robsoie]

Finally reached years 10 of my experiment (that was all about trying to see why goblin siege come and why they don't) and decided to end it there, maybe i'll try as a last attempt to make it into a capital (only need some more offer to do instead of trade to reach the requirement) before i simply go back to 34.11

- i used default 40.24 and modded only the goblins so instead of having
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
they would have
[LITTERSIZE:10:20]
So pop wouldn't be a problem.

- my world was set on Smaller (to keep civs rather close and avoid some "can't come to you because you're too far problem that could affect army, who know) and went on more than 250 year of worldgen.

- apparently elven civs were no more (confirmed by no elves merchant ever coming)

- i embarked next to the goblin dark fortress that at the time had a little more than 10000 gobs (and +/- 5000 trolls) in order to not have too much path for the gobs to do

- at the time of embark the goblins were at war with my civ.

Then after embark, what happened with the goblins
- year 0 .. nothing
- year 1 .. nothing
- year 2 .. nothing
- year 3 .. goblin siege ! , though it was a very small one and my military that had been training for 3 years were good enough to destroy it.
- year 4 ... nothing
- year 5 ... nothing
- year 6 ... nothing
- year 7 ... goblin siege ! , a bigger one, the biggest i had observed in all my df2014 forts
- year 7 ... a few month later another goblin siege !, couldn't believe it, 2 sieges in the same year
- year 8 ... nothing, a "human" diplomat came, he was a vampire and so we destroyed him (hoping those human vampire lovers would come)
- year 9 ... nothing
- year 10 ... nothing until summer when i decided it was enough to close that experiment.

observation :
- at the time i decided to call it enough, the goblin civ was still at war with us, and they have been at war with us every years in my civ screen, and my liaison mentionned to me "everything is the same as ever" so no peace treaty or anything went in the way
- probably the fort i got the most legendary civilians and military i ever got in df2014, so many artifacts and normal works were getting done that it's not a surprise
- despite we annihilated their vampire diplomats, the human civ never came to siege us or complain.
- in the last 2 years my fortress was a duchy (it took oddly a long time for my barony to upgrade to county, but it very fast went to duchy)
- several forgotten beasts came, 2 of them died from battle with blind ogres in the lowest caverns and 1 die because i forgot to wall a hole (fortunately it was a non-syndrome giving one and my military that was full legendary at the time destroyed it), never bothered about them, they weren't part of my experimentation.
- a were-something came on the surface and was easily killed, i was worried about my guards getting bitten, but it didn't happen, i had enough other things to deal with
- by year 10 half the for civilians were depressed and even oblivious/haggard due to intense depression, apparently just carrying corpses of goblins into refuses stockpiles (i wanted to simulate some kind of catacombs) do this, and dwarven justice does not help.
- the last 3 years were slow as i was full of dwarves and my numerous stockpiles (i didn't wanted to quantum them) were full , probably contributing a lot in my getting bored as everything was taking a lot of time to be done.
- dwarves vomit a lot (cave adaptation) , a very very lot , my fortress entrance was nearly having rivers of vomits all around.
- "hostile" thingy-man tribes you find in the caverns are actually not hostile at all , you can dance around them and .. nothing will happen, your military does not attack them either, probably another bug.

[pisskop]

No, goblin sieges are definitely increasing in number and even composition/skill level somewhat as time goes on.  Certainly not as fast as 34.x, but perhaps its actually my wealth/their 'spare population' related.


I taken to calling these new style invaders 'rainbow squads' because of how diverse they are.

[Detros]

- "hostile" thingy-man tribes you find in the caverns are actually not hostile at all , you can dance around them and .. nothing will happen, your military does not attack them either, probably another bug.

This was already reported. See issue 7369.

[gchristopher]

Does anyone have any suggestions for getting more ambushers/invaders? After dozen games in 40.X versions, I've written it off as boring and gone back to 34.11.

I'll embark in an area with kobold and goblin neighbors each time, and nobody every shows up? (I know I'm getting all the trivial stuff right, like fulfilling all the pop/wealth/etc requirements for the relevant civs.)

Maybe it's because I'm usually in an interesting evil biome? Are the undead killing off the ambush/snatcher and siege events?

I don't see how people are enjoying 40.24, the only visitors I ever see are more boring undead and (the very limited supply of) necromancers. The world may as well be goblin-free in this version.

[darkflagrance]

Does anyone have any suggestions for getting more ambushers/invaders? After dozen games in 40.X versions, I've written it off as boring and gone back to 34.11.

I'll embark in an area with kobold and goblin neighbors each time, and nobody every shows up? (I know I'm getting all the trivial stuff right, like fulfilling all the pop/wealth/etc requirements for the relevant civs.)

Maybe it's because I'm usually in an interesting evil biome? Are the undead killing off the ambush/snatcher and siege events?

I don't see how people are enjoying 40.24, the only visitors I ever see are more boring undead and (the very limited supply of) necromancers. The world may as well be goblin-free in this version.

You could try testing a mod that makes goblins more likely to siege your fort such as the Goblin Upgrade Mod. Basically it makes goblins try to attack your fort sooner, and adds more goblin entities so that each goblin civ can try to attack your fort, rather than just one. It also makes sure late goblin sieges don't consist of mere recruits.

[gchristopher]

You could try testing a mod that makes goblins more likely to siege your fort such as the Goblin Upgrade Mod. Basically it makes goblins try to attack your fort sooner, and adds more goblin entities so that each goblin civ can try to attack your fort, rather than just one. It also makes sure late goblin sieges don't consist of mere recruits.

Neat. I've tried lowering the progress triggers, and that doesn't help, since the invaders never reach the player fortress?

[LIKES_SITE:PLAYER_FORTRESS] is intriguing! I wasn't aware that was a tag option.

I wonder if/how adding all the duplicate entities really helps, though? The number of civs is capped at world gen, so is the goal just to skew the count to be more of the goblin-type entities? Wouldn't you still have the same basic distribution of evil civilizations available to attack, whether or not they were all based on the same entity, or several similar entity entries? There'd still be the same basic problem of them never reaching the fortress? (I'm just asking, I'd be happy to hear they help somehow!)

[Putnam]

I don't see how people are enjoying 40.24

there's more to the game than invasions and 0.40.01 was the version that introduced the feature that happens to be the entire point of the game?

I've said before: if you're seriously annoyed by that enough to switch versions and don't consider the world activation worth it, move to Gnomoria, because you may actually not get the point of this game.

[Urlance Woolsbane]

I don't see how people are enjoying 40.24

I could point to a number of things, but I'll settle for two words: "Reanimating Biomes."

Zombies are especially dangerous in the current version, more powerful than even Toady wants them. Maintaining a fort in with the threat of undeath is a very delicate balancing act. One mistake, and it can very easily be curtains for your dorfs. Not to mention the difficulty of ferrying in merchants and migrants or living without them. If that's not fun, I don't know what is.

[Robsoie]

After dozen games in 40.X versions, I've written it off as boring and gone back to 34.11.

The best solution is simply to go back to 34.11 in my opinion if you want a challenge that is not those one-punch kill undead, and even add multiple goblin entities in the raws to make nearly constant sieges.

But if you wish to try to keep going at 40.24 , a workaround to the lack of sieges (Toady mentionned there's an army pathing bug that is fixed only for the next version, regarding armies not coming in certain conditions) is to have everything else hostile to your embarks and willing to kill your dwarves, so basically you get the whole nature besieging you with the most intense desire being to destroy your dwarves.

It's not everyday you see those usually peaceful group of groundhogs suddenly rushing toward your dwarven settlement and try to savagely murder every single of your citizens.

That can make it for very silly fun fortresses, you can try the idea there :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=152661.0
But in the creature_standard.txt included in this mini mod, remove the line
[CRAZED]
from the [CREATURE:DWARF] entry , as that entry , while interesting for adventure mode, would prevent dwarven fortresses to be playable (leading into immediate game over when tried).

[omega_dwarf]

Toady mentionned there's an army pathing bug that is fixed only for the next version, regarding armies not coming in certain conditions

Just want to emphasize this point. Salvation may be coming! Plus a whole lot of interesting fortress visitors, the dynamics of your dwarves running an inn, libraries, temples, etc. Have faith! It may only be a month or two from now that the game becomes enjoyable to play again.

[gchristopher]

there's more to the game than invasions and 0.40.01 was the version that introduced the feature that happens to be the entire point of the game?

Oh totally, agreed, running the world simulator after a game starts is great! (In theory) In practice, however, that aspect doesn't yet add too much to fortress-mode gameplay other than the hope that populations won't be exhausted. The lack of invaders is gameplay-breaking enough to fortress mode to at least justify a point release correcting whatever is causing it, instead of leaving the entire 40.X release experience working so poorly.

It matters most to me because I'd like to introduce DF to people who've played games like gnomoria, and snatchers/ambushers are a pretty critical part of the difficulty progression in DF. It's great that once you have a basic handle on food/booze/psychology, you're put under a little pressure to also defend yourself. Without them, you're left with options like:

But if you wish to try to keep going at 40.24 [....] have everything else hostile to your embarks and willing to kill your dwarves, so basically you get the whole nature besieging you with the most intense desire being to destroy your dwarves.

Yep! That's pretty much what I've been doing. Get the worst thralling weather you can find, plus reanimation for undead populations, and use dfhack to move every necromancer tower to within range! (Obviously a lot more if you want mods, but I prefer as close to vanilla as feasible, Modest Mod style.)

It's too bad that 40.X requires you to go to such extravagant (and possibly inconclusive) measures to get baddies to come towards your fortress, though. I remember Toadie mentioning changes to pathing, but I think some of the speedups have some severe downsides, especially on larger maps where arriving enemies may fail to even locate which part of the map the fortress is on.

Salvation may be coming! Plus a whole lot of interesting fortress visitors, the dynamics of your dwarves running an inn, libraries, temples, etc. Have faith! It may only be a month or two from now that the game becomes enjoyable to play again.

I hope so too!

[MDFification]

Honestly, I'll be happier when to found your fortress you have to actually lead a band of dwarves from the mountainhome to the site you're planing to build on. I feel like most players are embarking in regions where it's pretty darn infeasible for anything from actually inhabited areas to have pathed there, which is why they're getting fewer invaders (and probably when caravans physically move on the map they'll start getting fewer traders too). Forcing you to actually path to your fort in the first place would resolve that problem.

[Bumber]

Honestly, I'll be happier when to found your fortress you have to actually lead a band of dwarves from the mountainhome to the site you're planing to build on. I feel like most players are embarking in regions where it's pretty darn infeasible for anything from actually inhabited areas to have pathed there, which is why they're getting fewer invaders (and probably when caravans physically move on the map they'll start getting fewer traders too). Forcing you to actually path to your fort in the first place would resolve that problem.

Hopefully boats and tunnels will make certain areas more accessible. We've got the tunnels, but I don't think they do anything for armies/caravans yet.

[Detros]

Honestly, I'll be happier when to found your fortress you have to actually lead a band of dwarves from the mountainhome to the site you're planing to build on. I feel like most players are embarking in regions where it's pretty darn infeasible for anything from actually inhabited areas to have pathed there, which is why they're getting fewer invaders (and probably when caravans physically move on the map they'll start getting fewer traders too). Forcing you to actually path to your fort in the first place would resolve that problem.

Hopefully boats and tunnels will make certain areas more accessible. We've got the tunnels, but I don't think they do anything for armies/caravans yet.

Yay, goblin siege on rogallos!

[SyrusLD]

At the start of Violentlash's 50th year of existence I got two sizeable goblin sieges within less than a week. As in: I smashed one and just as my military was back in the fortress and I was ready to remove the corpses and cages a second siege popped up.

Having several entities of each race (in range) and having embarked not far off from civilization has left Violentlash always with a lot of attention from sieges.
The only thing is, these sieges have not been much danger to even a non-legendary military I'd say. It's always just the same goblin-troll combo with very rarely an even weaker recruit-only sieges popping up. Where're the feared weapon masters, where are the mounts...?

I have been trying to also befriend the elves...so far, after several times having smashing (and slashing) success at taking care of their diplomats and caravans, I still have not received a single siege from them.