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Author Topic: Realistic Names  (Read 6319 times)

darknessofthenight

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2014, 05:52:58 pm »

I think dwarves should keep weird names. Maybe splitting them in easily recognizeable gender patterns like ending male names with consonant and female with vowel.
Humans should have real world names. I think there should be libraries of names by culture and during worldgen each civ would get its own. So we would play and see that Robert, Svyatoslav and Akhmed are from different civs.
Elves and goblins, IMHO, should have meaningful names. For elves - names related to nature, trees, peaceful animals (how disgusting) and for goblins - names related to violence, weapon, evil etc.
Kobolds should just have lame names
Demons, beasts should have long weird names like they currently do.

It would be nice to have some relevance in nicknames, but firsrt there should be more nominal awards.
I like this idea except that the consonant vowel thing seems more human, if dwarfs differentiate by gender, they should do it in some more interesting way
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GavJ

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 08:21:18 pm »

Quote
Kobolds should just have lame names
This makes me think "Myrtle" "Bernice" "Humphrey" etc.
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utunnels

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 10:40:31 pm »

How about combining parts of two or more words to form the first name to form more distinct names?
For example, Urist + Cog = Uristog

I'm not sure about the family name part. Actually I don't even know which name is their family name, the first one or the second one.
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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 12:30:56 am »

Just ask some nerdy linguistics grad student to come up with a system. They'll do it for free and with relish and still feel like they owe you for life.
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Bumber

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 12:44:00 am »

Just ask some nerdy linguistics grad student to come up with a system. They'll do it for free and with relish and still feel like they owe you for life.
Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2014, 10:00:40 am »

Oh hey, I forgot about that.

I actually like the nonsense names for people, though I'd like to see the dwarves inherit their nonsense names so I can track families more easily.
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Dirst

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2014, 11:11:58 am »

Dwarven Linguistics: Community Project
There is no Dwarven word for magma???
For now we can use "stesok id" (molten rock), but it does look like a glaring oversight...
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Loam

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2014, 11:21:29 am »

I am myself torn on what I want more: the current, sometimes funny names or more realistic names. On the one hand, it's great when you're dwarven civ is called "The Beards of Drinking"; on the other, mostly the RNG comes up with nonsense, like "The Scintillating Rags," which (I think) is neither funny nor interesting. Having towns named after location or founder - say "Urist's Ford" for a hillock by a river - would be very cool, and would make the world feel more historical.

Names for people would depend more on culture, which as it stands is fairly absent from DF. First name/last name I think should always be present: first names being drawn from a pool of derived terms (a shabby example: "Nòmuvel," from nòm "god" and uvel "bear," equivalent to English Osborn); last names coming from different sources as mentioned above.
In addition to this, family or clan names might come up in civs with more cultural focus on lineage (dwarves and humans come to my mind): either as a third name (like the Roman cognomen) or perhaps prefixed by "Clan" or "House" to make it more explicit. Nòmuvel Eshtân, clan Måmgoz-ugog: "Osborn Smith, clan Dragon-bane."
There's also patronymics as in Russian (or matronymics, if you prefer). Lots of possibilities for names.

In any case, it's not something that requires immediate attention, but could stand to be smoothed out at some point. As I said it depends heavily on culture, which we don't have in any meaningful form, so I'd stay away from making any definite naming-systems for the present.

There is no Dwarven word for magma???
There's no dwarven word for a lot of things. Not for look, see, hear, come, go, give, do, or even be. But we have "scintillating."
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Illogical_Blox

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2014, 11:36:54 am »

I would like to keep weird names, but I'd love dwarves to keep surnames from parents.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2014, 11:51:59 am »

I am myself torn on what I want more: the current, sometimes funny names or more realistic names. On the one hand, it's great when you're dwarven civ is called "The Beards of Drinking"; on the other, mostly the RNG comes up with nonsense, like "The Scintillating Rags," which (I think) is neither funny nor interesting. Having towns named after location or founder - say "Urist's Ford" for a hillock by a river - would be very cool, and would make the world feel more historical.

Names for people would depend more on culture, which as it stands is fairly absent from DF. First name/last name I think should always be present: first names being drawn from a pool of derived terms (a shabby example: "Nòmuvel," from nòm "god" and uvel "bear," equivalent to English Osborn); last names coming from different sources as mentioned above.
In addition to this, family or clan names might come up in civs with more cultural focus on lineage (dwarves and humans come to my mind): either as a third name (like the Roman cognomen) or perhaps prefixed by "Clan" or "House" to make it more explicit. Nòmuvel Eshtân, clan Måmgoz-ugog: "Osborn Smith, clan Dragon-bane."
There's also patronymics as in Russian (or matronymics, if you prefer). Lots of possibilities for names.

In any case, it's not something that requires immediate attention, but could stand to be smoothed out at some point. As I said it depends heavily on culture, which we don't have in any meaningful form, so I'd stay away from making any definite naming-systems for the present.

There is no Dwarven word for magma???
There's no dwarven word for a lot of things. Not for look, see, hear, come, go, give, do, or even be. But we have "scintillating."


Occasionally the names get a little janky but in general I chock it up to dwarven culture and human culture being different. Sometimes when you hear a name from a different culture it's strange because you just don't have the background to appreciate what certain words mean to them. When I hear "scintillating rags" I just assume that it's a playful way of referring to the oil soaked rag used to make a torch. I can imagine the founder getting into a spat with a noble who uses the word "scintillating" in some imperious insult and years later this is a jab at him.

"How's this for scintillating asshole, now your on fire!"

I wouldn't mind seeing sites named for historical characters but "Urists Ford" or "clan Dragon-Bane" just sound so generic fantasy.
 

O11O1

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2014, 01:14:23 pm »

In what situations would a dwarf lack a surname, that is, have only a first name?

Historically it's a fairly recent rule that everyone has a first and last name, before then only the noblilty and the pretentious had last names.

It might be nice once factions and clans go in, that somedorf has to actually -found- a clan before surnames start occurring.

Preferably this should happen fairly often, multiple times per fort-year say.
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Dirst

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2014, 02:21:55 pm »

In what situations would a dwarf lack a surname, that is, have only a first name?

Historically it's a fairly recent rule that everyone has a first and last name, before then only the noblilty and the pretentious had last names.

It might be nice once factions and clans go in, that somedorf has to actually -found- a clan before surnames start occurring.

Preferably this should happen fairly often, multiple times per fort-year say.
Names are a bit more general than that.  Chinese names (if I'm explaining this correctly) have three components: a family name first, followed by a "generation" name, and finally a given name.  All of the boys in a given family generation would have the same "generation" name (and all of the girls would as well, but it'd be different from the boys').

We could imagine several name components that could get mixed and matched to form a civ-level naming rule.  A first cut at component types:

Given name
Ritual name (like a Catholic confirmation name or a Wiccan sacred name)
Profession (possibly including rank)
Generation name (possibly one per caste per family)
Family name
Clan name
Place of origin

The trickiest bit is when to establish a new family name, if ever.  On a long-history world, it's possible to end up with an entire civ with only a couple surnames.
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darknessofthenight

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2014, 07:56:11 pm »


We could imagine several name components that could get mixed and matched to form a civ-level naming rule.  A first cut at component types:

Given name
Ritual name (like a Catholic confirmation name or a Wiccan sacred name)
Profession (possibly including rank)
Generation name (possibly one per caste per family)
Family name
Clan name
Place of origin

The trickiest bit is when to establish a new family name, if ever.  On a long-history world, it's possible to end up with an entire civ with only a couple surnames.
I really like this idea
perhaps a great act such as the slaying of a mega beast or the creation of an artifact could permit a dwarf to take a new clan name if they had a personality conducive to spitting off from the clan
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utunnels

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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 08:30:06 pm »

Perhaps instead of creating a completely different naming system, maybe some family names can be decided, say, when the world is created.
For example, dwarves of the north have different family names than their southern counterparts. Moreover, a town/settlement usually have their own set of names.
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Re: Realistic Names
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2014, 07:49:49 am »

I often set up a Mr, Miss or Mrs in front of the nickname to trace dwarven bloodlines - it helps me tell a story if I can see the genders abs family relationships at a glance.
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