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[Sheb]

Random events are totally a thing that I totally forgot to roll every single time, so I'm considering dropping them.

I actually like the treaty system, although I think it should be nerfed. For starter, you should not get benefits from your own academies. I also don't see how it encourage "many vs. one" battles. Many vs. one battles are always encourage, because it's safer to team up to destroy one guy.

I'll post a list of treaties later if you want.

Overseas provinces count like terrestrial provinces for distance calculation, so if you have a province one sea away from your capital, it'll count as being "two provinces away", and generate army like all the other HQs that were two provinces away.

[10ebbor10]

Yes, but this encourages them even more. The cost for cancelling a treaty is significant, so that severly discourages backstabbing. In addition, the winning alliance can easily get a massive tech advantage, thanks to ridicously huge gains from treaties and trading.

On a side note, since for most players almost half their RP income comes from treaties, it has roughly halved the advantage of democracy. Seems problematic.

[10ebbor10]

I'm going to rule "Yes if they win the fight, but if they loose, the army sink with them".

In that case, shouldn't the Ottoman island assault have failed.

[10ebbor10]

Random events are totally a thing that I totally forgot to roll every single time, so I'm considering dropping them.

Makes some research rather obsolete though.

[a1s]

Yes, but this encourages them even more. The cost for cancelling a treaty is significant, so that severly discourages backstabbing. In addition, the winning alliance can easily get a massive tech advantage, thanks to ridicously huge gains from treaties and trading.

Welcome to world wars 101.
...
Though, admittedly, your concern is valid. In the 2 world wars, there were 3 flips (arguably 1), and 1 legitimate backstab. And that's with dozens of participants.

I'm going to rule "Yes if they win the fight, but if they loose, the army sink with them".

In that case, shouldn't the Ottoman island assault have failed.

No. First you roll for sea combat. Than land battles. Then resolve new sea battles that arise from land conquest. This is explained, like, 2 posts later.

[Sheb]

Yeah, but getting benefits only from your treaty partner's academies would more than halve the research treaty's importance, so it should balance things a bit.

[10ebbor10]

It would only further unbalance it in the current situation, because the main power block that forms is also going to be the one where all people have decent research infrastructure. So, while it would nerf the effectiveness of treaties, it would only further encourage the formations of unstoppable power blocks.

Still a rather big nerf for democracy as well. (33% effectiveness reduction rather than 50%)

[a1s]

Yeah, but getting benefits only from your treaty partner's academies would more than halve the research treaty's importance, so it should balance things a bit.

I would like to suggest that though you benefit from your partners' academies the numbers be added together (so instead of getting 1RP from a 4 academies partner and 1RP from a 5 academied partner, you'd get 3RP from both. This simplifies accounting a tiny bit, and prevents situation where building 1 academy will suddenly net 4 "extra" RP to your alliance, like there is now)

[Sheb]

Well, the accounting is done by the spreadsheet, so that's no issue, I'll think about it.

10ebbor10, democracies' RP bonus has been nerfed due to treaties, but it's PI bonus has been buffed. Also, if a form of government has been chosen by over a third of players, it look balanced.

Anyway, one thing I wanted to add, but forgot and will go in the next rule version, is combat bonuses from outnumbering your enemies. That will nerf Dictatorship's defense bonus somewhat and balance government type.

[Toaster]

Democracy also lost their attack penalty, so that's something.


I think the issue is less tech treaties and more tech trading.  Tech brokering is very powerful in a game like Civilization where there are a lot of techs to research, but here where there aren't that many in the first place it's even stronger.  While the idea is logical and makes sense, in game balance it's a case where the rich get richer, and first to trade essentially gets several turns of research for free.

I do agree, however, that as written tech treaties are too strong.  Counting research treaties as a global pool (your acadmies + all tech ally academies / 3 = bonus) is probably a more balanced option.

So, while it would nerf the effectiveness of treaties, it would only further encourage the formations of unstoppable power blocks.

Power blocks are likely to form regardless of the rules simply due to the nature of the game.

[a1s]

I think the issue is less tech treaties and more tech trading.

+1. I would suggest in future versions, instead of straight up tech trade have "blueprint" trade. A tech you have a blueprint is 50% (maybe 75%) cheaper to research, representing the fact that although you now have technical documentation to make stuff, you don't have the facilities or experts on it, so your scientific establishment spends time studying up on it. (Hearts of Iron had that)

[Toaster]

I think the issue is less tech treaties and more tech trading.

+1. I would suggest in future versions, instead of straight up tech trade have "blueprint" trade. A tech you have a blueprint is 50% (maybe 75%) cheaper to research, representing the fact that although you now have technical documentation to make stuff, you don't have the facilities or experts on it, so your scientific establishment spends time studying up on it. (Hearts of Iron had that)

That's certainly better than what we have now, but it may still be too much.  (I wouldn't give any more than a 50% discount.)



For the record, I'm currently getting 26 research points from local academies and 24 from treaties.  If we instead calculated a single bonus from the sum of all partner and self academies, it'd be 11.  If we excluded self academies in a lump sum of others, it'd be 8.  If we calculated each treaty separately, but only gave academy/3 from the academies for the others, it'd be 7.

Just some numbers for comparison.

[Sheb]

This is on hold for a few days for personnal reasons.

[Toaster]

No problem.  Hope your whatever gets straightened out.

[stabbymcstabstab]

Anyway, one thing I wanted to add, but forgot and will go in the next rule version, is combat bonuses from outnumbering your enemies. That will nerf Dictatorship's defense bonus somewhat and balance government type.

Thank God, that was stupid when I lost what four units to one? It shouldn't have been that bad but now my revenge will be had!