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Author Topic: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things  (Read 1314 times)

Truean

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TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« on: November 12, 2014, 08:10:56 pm »

Standard thread rules apply. Nothing about sex or adult things.

Let's talk about TV and movies and stuff.

The only shows that are off limits are:
1.)MLP Friendship is magic (because there's sadly a reason it's banned on these forums).
[Others as they come up, but hopefully not
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Cheeetar

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 08:12:02 pm »

General Discussion: The thread.
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Jervill

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 08:22:02 pm »

So, uh, Shakespeare's "The Tempest".

I found it to be one of his plays I actually enjoyed.  The rest I dismissed as either annoyingly juvenile or just plain bad.  Perhaps I'm interpreting it in a strange way but I thought Prespero (which many people have considered a self-insert of Shakespeare himself) was quit an interesting character.  Almost pragmatic to the extreme.

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Truean

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 08:33:07 pm »

Screens have been a huge part of our lives, mostly with TV and movies and things, but the analog version of plays and the digital stuff can be too.

TV, for me provides or rather well made TV can provide, certain emotional and cultural touchstones and overall feelings/thoughts in mind. Lately, I have not been impressed, though the canceling of Honey Boo Boo is a good sign if you ask me. I don't like reality TV in general. I think stories have drastically changed in both design, tone, and message. Some of this is good and some of this isn't if you ask me.

Take our vision of the future, it used to be more optimistic. We viewed futuristic cities as full of tall well planned sky scraper buildings and society as progressing. Think Star Trek, the Next Generation. Now, our vision of the future is pessimistic at best and often our visions of the future are either disutopias, smoking craters or both. Even Disney is in on it with Wallie. Optimism used to be overdone and oversimplified, and that is the justification of today's "darker and grittier" version of entertainment. It seems that if things aren't portrayed as dark and depressing, that it is thought of as too poppy and fake. It's sad that things can't be slightly upbeat and address issues/solve them, even in fantasy stories.

Prime example: The Walking Dead. Let me specify, I like the show, but damn is it depressing. There is a reason the show is called "The Walking Dead," and it isn't the zombies: it's the survivors.... The comics and the show aim to deconstruct things by tearing apart society and showing how people interact with one another without society functioning. It's a useful tool, and I get it, but again, depressing as hell. I get the drama creation, I do, but it seems to my (perhaps slanted view) that everything is depressing today. The optimists are portrayed as naive and even if they aren't, then they're doomed. What's sad is that it's a sadly realistic portrayal of how a lot of people would react to societal collapse.

Compare and contrast to Battlestar Galactica, the newer series. Similar premise if you think about it... Societal collapse, limited resources, various factions struggling for control, and robots instead of zombies. There's even the long term goal of reaching some far away place (won't ruin it if you haven't seen).... The difference, though there are factions and fracturing discipline, you've still got people pulling together. You've also got your hero characters, who despite struggling through some pretty heavy shit, pull through it: Starbuck, Apollo, etc. You even have complex looks into the enemy cylons who now look like us, and some of them don't like what they are and have to deal with that to the point where it becomes a major plot point.

See the difference in tone between The Walking Dead, and Battlestar? Sure one's in the future and robots instead of zombies, but it's the tone. TWD is more grusome, perhaps partially by nature, but Battlestar deals with some pretty bad stuff too including complicity with the enemy to commit nuclear genocide upon billions.... They're both pretty well written series if you ask me, and pretty complicated, but one is far less depressing and hopeful.

Groups seem to play a far lesser role in recent media than they did before. The tone is far darker too. I miss that.

Edit:
Tempest:

Tempest was another view of the human soul by Shakespeare and adapted, I thought, a view of a tri soul for humans much like Freud's ID Ego and Superego. Ariel was the Main Character's higher nature, while Caliban was seen as his baser nature. As the play ends, he is both able to accept his brutal nature ("this thing of darkness I acknowledge mine" he says when taking responsibility for Caliban) while letting go of his connection with higher, powerful forces ("then to the elements be free, and fare thou well" he says, setting Ariel free). I thought it was pretty well done, especially considering the time frame in which it was written.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 09:19:57 pm by Truean »
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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Jervill

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 08:53:53 pm »


Never looked at it quite that way, makes it interesting admittedly.  I am a bit harsh on Shakespeare, admittedly, but I find the worship he gets to be a bit over the top.  He was very much a product of his time and his works reflect that, although there are the few that transcend that limitation.

As for media being so damn cynical these days, agreed.  Too much "rugged individualism" and not enough bonding together for the greater good.
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Truean

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 09:14:47 pm »

That's a big part of it with the cynical thing. The other part is the "things are screwed and not only is there nothing we can do to stop it, but we can't even really cope after it hits the fan," thing. It sucks. Basically it also seems to reinforce and give people the justification they seek for the ever too prevalent "hurray for me and to hell with you" attitude we see today. Everything else is portrayed as either unworkable/naive, stupid, or evil. Plus it makes people feel better about being jerks, so.... There's that.

Even deeper, it's the lack of hope. It's the lack of something to look forward to. This is why superhero movies are making a comeback and are finding a place in big budget entertainment again. People need that hope to look up to. Superheroes provide it in a way that's popularly becoming more acceptable. Rewind a minute, when I was a kid, you were a total nerd if you read comic books and liked Star Wars/Star Trek. Now, Star Wars has been purchased by Disney and mainstreamed, so that it is going to be popular/what kids grow up watching and thinking of as neat now.... Superhero movies used to be goofy and accepted as such a bit. Now they've got better special effects and costumes. Case in point: Thor. You have any idea how many little kids dressed up as him for Halloween? Lots, that's how many. That wasn't a thing 30 years ago, and I bet you would've had massive backlash from religious groups 30 years ago if it was (Pagan/non christian God of Thunder).

Same deal with Lord of the Rings. I was probably the only kid in a 100 mile radius to know what the hell a Hobbit was.

At their core, Star Wars and Superhero Movies, etc, are about hope. They're about that overcoming of some big bad thing through doing it right and never giving up. Missing element in much of today's entertainment. We really need that.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 09:24:37 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

alexandertnt

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 09:31:10 pm »

Yeah, TV shows have really gotten pretty depressing and ultra-individualistic as of late, which is unfortunate as I always preferred shows with a brighter outlook on life.

On the other hand, the quality of some TV shows has really improved a great deal, and has made TV worth watching again (at least on occasion).

I'm reminded of The last Star Trek series (Enterprise), where it was pretty much following the normal Star Trek formula (fly around, encounter complication, overcome complication, everyones happy), but half way through second season it went all ultra-survivalism and dark, and really started to make use of story arcs. It also became much more interesting and entertaining too (IMO at least), and it made me really want to watch the next episode, In a "Oohhh, whats going to happen next episode" sort of way, made more fun by the fact that the next episode would be effectively a continuation of the last to some degree.

I would really like to see a TV show with this sort of story arcing and less traditional format going on, but is also less super-grimdark and less "rugged individualism". Not that these aren't totally valid tools, I just think they are used a bit too heavily.

But in the mean time, I will still watch these new shows, just because the overall quality is really quite good.
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Truean

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 09:40:57 pm »

Enterprise was still moving towards something good, excellent even, and better yet it was known from the start. The series was in a time frame before the other treks, and thus we knew it would all work out in the end.

The series realized its end goals (massive spoiler if you haven't watched the series to conclusion):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I actually don't think Enterprise falls into the cynical realm of new TV. Two words, Theme Song:

"I've got faith of the heart and nothin's gonna bend or break me, I've got faith to believe I can do anything...."

If that's not an uplifting overall message then I truly don't know what is. Moreover, they always band together to get through things. And the tragedy they live through often binds them together with love and friendship all the more as can be seen with (Spoiler in case you haven't watched it):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
.
It, to me, was a return to form for Trek with updated morals and even more cultural/gender sensitivity/acceptance. (The captain wasn't womanizing his way through the galaxy as much this time)

Tragically it only lasted 4 instead of the usual 7 seasons for a trek show and there hasn't been a major network trek since then. :(

In fact, you can compare Star Wars and its huge rise with Star Trek's tragic slump lately due to the tone. Star Trek went dark as all get out with Episode III. Trek has never been about that and has always been about cultural acceptance (First white/black kiss on American TV) and optimistic exploration. Look where Trek is now. Look where Star Wars is now.

In short, it seems Enterprise was what I (and you?) wanted....
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 09:44:17 pm by Truean »
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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Jervill

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 09:47:41 pm »

Enterprise would have had an excellent Season 5-7 what with the Earth-Romulan War starting up...ah, what could have been. 

Not saying the show didn't have its flaws, of course.  But Season 4 was epic in many, many ways.

There were some really, really bad episodes though...but that's Star Trek, all of them.  (Masks, anyone?)
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Caz

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 09:50:42 pm »

Yeah, TV shows have really gotten pretty depressing and ultra-individualistic as of late, which is unfortunate as I always preferred shows with a brighter outlook on life.


Stark and gritty is in, apparently.

Edit: If you want happy, there's always comedy. Most drama shows tend to reflect life more these days though, especially with the love for continuity these days (no magical reset button where everything is the same at the end of the episode as it began. I'm looking at you, ST: Voyager)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 09:52:26 pm by Caz »
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alexandertnt

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 10:01:30 pm »

The whole show did become darker though. They were all beaten up, everyone was overstressed (and it showed), they were cut off from Earth, they did and nearly did a few things that voilated their morals etc. I was more commenting on the journey than the destination. But your right, in the end it all worked out, and the antagonist aliens weren't so bad in the end after all. It did a decent job of remaining true to Star Trek in that regards. I probably overstated the grimdarky-ness of it, but I still think its a valid description to a degree.

(I too am saddened that it was cancelled :'( The Romulan plot they were building towards could have been really great.)

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, that show was not overly cynical or anything (but it had its moments), and your pretty much right.


Babylon 5 is another good TV show that became quite intense and story-arcy, but kept a pretty positive outlook on things, and had a big focus on co-operation and trust to overcome obstacles.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 10:04:09 pm by alexandertnt »
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You eat your own head
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Fniff

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 10:07:38 pm »

Cracked did a very interesting podcast on that very subject, actually. Anyway, TV shows. I watched Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, both of which are considered part of the wave of dark and gritty shows. To be honest, I liked Breaking Bad more. GoT just doesnt appeal to me because after a certain point, there just isn't any hope for anything. Breaking Bad feels a little more down to earth in it's cynicism. Breaking Bad was very smart in making sure there was always hope for something even if it didn't happen.

Truean

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 12:06:44 pm »

Enterprise was good, but wasn't something most wide ranging audiences could relate to, because it got lost in trek lore. Temporal Cold War was the primary issue here. It assumed the audience knew a lot of trek lore, and only the trekkies did. TNG, while it had a good dose of the reset after each episode button, was accessible. You're skipping around centuries with the whole time travel thing. Granted Trek was always about space and time travel, but it was usually more explained, even if through technobabble. Sphere builders, 26th century aliens, 29th century time cops, it just was too much to digest. It could've done something more relatable with a more relatable enemy (somebody mentioned the Romulans). The enemies were too strange to relate to at all.

Same thing happened with Matrix Trilogy. Everybody seemed to love the first one, but the second two.... Well.... The first one took you down the rabbit hole and explained things with the needed hand holding, because back then it was a pretty new concept at the time. Matrix failed to explain things on screen, though the animatrix did, most people never saw it. The sequels should have explained the rabbit hole further as we followed Alice down it. Instead, it took the attitude that everybody knew things they did not. It could've covered the Million Machine march, etc. It did not.

Both of these series expected a lot from their audiences and didn't get it.

Comedies wouldn't be a bad thing for happy thoughts, but anymore things seem to be moving towards lack of punchline and wit and more towards awkwardness.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 12:13:01 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 12:10:23 pm »

PTW
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Re: TV, movies shows, plays and other cultural things
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 08:21:16 pm »

Regular show and adventure time


Nuff said
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