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Author Topic: Request for a new type (or types) of stone  (Read 13266 times)

SixOfSpades

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Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« on: November 12, 2014, 07:11:49 pm »
Dear Toady: Please create, and add to worldgen, at least one of the following: chrysotile, tremolite, anthophyllite, amosite, crocidolite, or actinolite.

These minerals are the sources of the silicate fibers commonly known as asbestos. Adding them to the game would not only give us the possibility of flame-retardant clothing/armor, but also give the entire Strand Extractor profession a reason to exist prior to the discovery of candy.

Plus, lung cancer.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 07:17:58 pm »
The mining of those would either release a dust that slowly chokes a dwarf, or give you a boulder, which you can turn into a flame resistant cloth, providing basic protection from fire. I like it!
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GavJ

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 08:39:21 pm »
Seems way too gimmicky and anachronistic to me to be put in vanilla.

I would suggest a mod for this as more appropriate, which is already pretty easy to make with the modding tools available (raws alone)
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Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

SixOfSpades

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 11:08:54 pm »
Anachronistic? Hardly. Asbestos has been woven into fireproof cloth since at least Roman times. While rare, such articles were commonly tossed into a fire to impress guests, or to "prove" that the garment was indeed an authentic relic of some religious figure or other. And how is making an accurate DF representation of a real-life mineral any more "gimmicky" than, say, candy?

If anything, asbestos & its "ores" could be seen as "sugar-free candy". Without it, Strand Extractors would have to learn their trade doing things like making coir out of coconuts.
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GavJ

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 11:32:12 pm »
adamantine (read: cheap ripoff of mithril and various imitations) is a fantasy world staple. And it's a fantasy world simulator. Not the same thing.

Props for "sugar free candy" regardless, though!
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Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

Lord Dalek

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2014, 12:31:05 am »
Personally, I want to see anthracite. Why is that not a thing?
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Sirbug

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 01:14:09 am »
I like this. If only because I imagine result would be "rock cloth"
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Quote from: NullForceOmega on April 16, 2015, 11:29:06 am
Cool, but wouldn't this likely lead to tongues having a '[SPEACH]' tag, and thus via necromancy we would have nearly unkillable reanimated tongues following necromancers spamming 'it is sad but not unexpected'?

SixOfSpades

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 01:41:16 am »
Quote from: GavJ on November 12, 2014, 11:32:12 pm
adamantine . . . is a fantasy world staple.
Okay, so . . . asbestos = precedent in reality = gimmicky.
Adamantine = precedent in fantasy = not gimmicky.
Got it.


Quote from: Lord Dalek on November 13, 2014, 12:31:05 am
Personally, I want to see anthracite. Why is that not a thing?
Probably because it would be functionally identical to the types of coal that are already in-game. Now, if Toady were to implement the smoke created by burning wood & coal in places with little to no ventilation, anthracite would have the distinction of being nearly smokeless. Meanwhile, bituminous coal could be used not just as fuel, but as a source of bitumen, useful if your fort has need of waterproofing agents or extremely viscous adhesives. But the best bet for the addition of anthracite to the game is the fact that lignite & bituminous coal are both sedimentary, but anthracite is metamorphic--meaning, an embark site that lacks DF's traditional coals still might have anthracite.
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GavJ

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 08:40:39 am »
Quote from: SixOfSpades on November 13, 2014, 01:41:16 am
Quote from: GavJ on November 12, 2014, 11:32:12 pm
adamantine . . . is a fantasy world staple.
Okay, so . . . asbestos = precedent in reality = gimmicky.
Adamantine = precedent in fantasy = not gimmicky.
Got it.

Yes, actually:
Quote
In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature.

A fantasy staple in a fantasy game is not quirky and does not make you stand out for the sake of it. Whereas this makes me instantly think of those minecraft slogans on login screen like "Now with asbestos! *snigger*"
Adamantine is extremely useful and relevant and impacts gameplay hugely. Fireproof clothing is useless, since shields already block fire breath, and a shirt aint gonna save you from magma (plus we already have clown silk and I believe dragon leather which merely needs to be unbugged to give the proper number not just one leather per dragon)
In addition to any significant use of it being anachronistic. Yes, they used a tiny bit of it in antiquity -- and as you kindly pointed out, they used it for GIMMICKS.
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Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

taptap

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 08:59:03 am »
Quote from: GavJ on November 13, 2014, 08:40:39 am
Adamantine is extremely useful and relevant and impacts gameplay hugely.

Does it? Whether bronze war hammer or steel battle axe or adamantine sword as soon as you unpause most things are dead. (With very few exceptions.) Fireproofing, however ...

You could also add it as shearable fur of a creature living in or near the magma.
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Deboche

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 11:54:27 am »
I agree with this, although fireproof stuff wouldn't be very useful right now. I'm sure in the future fire will play a bigger part in DF
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Tomsod

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 12:17:23 pm »
I like this! There is indeed a lack of early-to-mid-game fireproof clothing. Although with current mechanics it would olny protect against fire imps, it's still always good to have something ready for when Toady decides to implement dwarven firefighters.

So, my five cents: it appears that the only asbestos mineral that matters is chrysotile. It's the most common one, the least dangerous, the most versatile and the easiest to spun into thread. In fact, the only mention of non-chrysotile cloth was of rare tremolite. All other kinds are too fragile, as I get it.

I'll try to draft some raws below.

Chrysotile: most common, safest, best.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some forms of tremolite also can be woven into fibers. They're uncommon and very cancerogenic though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also tried to dig up asbestos fiber properties, but mostly in vain. Well-woven cloth has tensile strength of about 700 MPa and Young's modulus around 85 GPa, but I haven't a clue how much Urists is it. Shear properties apparently aren't considered important, so I haven't found any data there. But it should be fairly sturdy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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JohnieRWilkins

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 01:48:43 pm »
Serpentine already exists in DF. It includes chrysotile.
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Thisfox

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 10:06:12 pm »
I like it. More dorfy than keeping surface animals for their yarn capabilities... Is there a Urist out there who would not be proud to be wearing the rocks he mined with his own pick? Whether or not it's fireproof is beside the point: It's just nice to have some totally stone-derived cloth which isn't ...mithril{cough} The Blue Stuff.

Plus the lung cancer is a viable side effect. There are entire towns here in Australia which have been rendered ghost towns due to being founded too close to an old asbestos mine. It might be treated like a Forgotten Beast dust... or somat similar. Dwarfwash to get the worst of it off, keeping animals away from it, all the rest of those endless issues.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 10:11:47 pm »
I like the idea of a chrysotile ore that can pop up in veins of serpentine...
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