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[Ancalagon_TB]

Hello

(I'm at the point where I've mastered the basics in dwarf fortress and I can look at the game from a bit broader perspective).

At first, of course trade is important - you can get things that you are lacking, it attracts migrants etc.  But once the fortress is solid, once you've hit your pop cap... is there a point anymore?

I've been fortunate that I've had a fort with iron, zinc, chalk and - when I dug deep enough - gold.  I used to struggle to scrap some copper together to make brass craft - I would also sell skull totems and gems.  I really had to earn those the trader brought.  Then I learned that trap components were worth a ton, and started making those in iron.  And then when I struck gold... well, it's at the point that all I need to sell are a few gold figurines and a ton of old socks and I can get whatever I need from the merchant.  Sure I could buy more, but what's the point?  It's just going to clutter my fort and slow down my FPS (which isn't super great). 

... and if I only need a dozen gold nuggets to get all I need (if that!), then why even bother digging for it?  Why bother still making brass or those skull totems or gems? 

Am I the only one that finds trading becomes very meh past a certain point?  Am I missing something?

[StagnantSoul]

It's just how you play. I plan everything out revolving around trade. Trade with elves means animals. Animals means meat shields and war animals. Trade with humans means tons of leather and metal. Tons of leather and metal means a stronger, larger military. Trade with dwarves means anything I need. Anything I need means avoidance of overly large mines and cavern breaching. Trade is key to my success.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

I don't really use trading either. It's just a bit of extra interesting food and leather.
And animals from the elves, those are sometimes worth it.

[Skuggen]

After a year or two I generally don't need much from the caravans aside from some extra cloth and leather, but wealth exported can be seen as a measure of success, and it helps attract the attention of all the interesting stuff.

I also use caravans to get rid of junk like worn-out clothing.
It can also help add some variety to your dwarves' diet, if all they're drinking is dwarven wine.

[Lemunde]

It's quite possible to have a very successful fortress without any trading at all assuming you have the basic necessities you will need to survive. Honestly if you're okay with just walling yourself in you shouldn't need to worry about trading once you've reached your migrant cap as you won't have to worry about maintaining a military. I would actually recommend this for someone new to Dwarf Fortress. Mechanically speaking it doesn't take very much to maintain a simple fortress.

Trade comes into play when you don't want your fortress to be so simple; when you decide you want to give your fortress those things the map just doesn't provide. Sure you have a lot of gold but maybe you want to encrust your golden furniture with diamonds and rubies. Sure your dwarves aren't too upset about running around naked but maybe you'd like to import some leather to give them all leather clothing. Maybe your king doesn't like gold and would rather have his throne room decked out in bismuth bronze. Maybe you'd like to construct a zoo with all kinds of exotic animals.

I guess you could say trade isn't required to live but it's required to make life worth living. For a dwarf, anyway.

[Putnam]

It's a really good source of food after word gets out that you buy up all the food a caravan brings.

[GavJ]

The trade system is crap because it's mainly a placeholder for a proper trading system later. It was largely waiting for the world generation to continue during your fort, like many other things. Eventually, presumably, there will be an actual dynamic economy. There are several threads in suggestions about how this might work.

But yeah, it's not really fun right now, and not intended YET to be a major focal point beyond a walking convenience store now and then.

If and when true economy is implemented, though, then there will be a lot of reason to use it. As a challenge, basically, you would customize your world to have scarce minerals and embark in places that lack things but are rich in maybe one or two things, and then live off of the trade for whatever you don't specialize in. Which wouldn't be NEARLY as easy to cheat at by selling golden serrated socks, because if it's based on actual demand for things, the market will simply be saturated nearly instantly for stupid junk like that, and they won't sell for anything much at all. Only the useful consumables like surplus food and industrial stuff would have staying power, and you'd have to actually work for your crucial trade. THAT will/would be fun.

[Ancalagon_TB]

Oh, I *might* be able to clothe my dwarves with no external output, but it's far easier just to trade for the leather.

... too easy.  A tanned hide is what, 10-30 urist?  A gold craft will sell for roughly 1000-3000 urist.  I just buy it by the bin and laugh at the cost.

Oh, and no elves (nor goblins) in this fort

[GavJ]

Oh, I *might* be able to clothe my dwarves with no external output, but it's far easier just to trade for the leather.

... too easy.  A tanned hide is what, 10-30 urist?  A gold craft will sell for roughly 1000-3000 urist.  I just buy it by the bin and laugh at the cost.

Oh, and no elves (nor goblins) in this fort

^
Yeah that wouldn't happen in a real economy. The AI would want the same things YOU do -- useful stuff, most of all. Leather and booze and wood (in non forest areas), etc. should end up quite expensive, and gold crafts a couple urists apiece at most.

ESPECIALLY the leather - that stuff is very hard to obtain in quantity realistically.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

I also give the traders all of the corpses in my refuse pile. So that is a use for them...

[Putnam]

I also give the traders all of the corpses in my refuse pile. So that is a use for them...

"BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!"

[EvilJapYaY]

I mostly use trading to get rid of stone. Stupid traders will always give ridiculous amounts of metals and drinks for useless stone crafts.

[Thisfox]

I definitely go for the leather and cloth after a certain point, and I always take all the food and booze they have, and if I'm not in an iron-rich area, I'll take all their anvils, because melted down, they can make great armour. Getting rid of cheap-quality stuff around the fort, and old clothing, is also useful. Who doesn't want more metal, precious gems, and a bit of variety in the booze?

Animals can be great, like the elves who brought me enough bears for a war bear army, or disasterous, like the rabbits I forgot about once... and I later gave the entire fort rabbit leather shoes...

Mostly, the traders aren't necessary, I agree. But they're fun. I like to think that the dwarfs enjoy getting to talk to someone other than the other members of the fort... Especially if the fort is low on numbers. I realise that's not the case, but I can roleplay.

[Salmeuk]

I also give the traders all of the corpses in my refuse pile. So that is a use for them...

"BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!"

Urist McBroker: "So that about wraps up our negotiations. Just leave all the goods at the depot, our haulers can take them in!"

Cog McTrader: "Are you sure that's all you wanted to give us? Just 3 *PLUMP HELMET ROASTS*? I mean, I did just agree to the trade, and by my calculations those roasts are worth much more than my entire caravan (and possibly my families entire fortune), but. . . it just doesn't seem right."

Urist McBroker: "No, you're right, I had forgotten something. Do you see that pile over there? The one covered in hazy swarms of flies and maggots? It totally isn't corpses but, uh, finely crafted marble statues that just look like the real thing."

Cog: ". . ."

Urist: "Yeah go ahead and take that. All of it. For free."

Cog: ". . ."

[Zuglarkun]

I've found that much later on, trading is essential for getting rid of junk that you can't simply destroy without repercussion e.g. XX☼sheep wool sock☼XX, ☼gold statue of large roaches☼.