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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

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Serhiy Tihipko

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Mykhailo Dobkin

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Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[Knit tie]

BTW, Helgoland. How many Germans want  Königsberg back?

None. None that should be Germans, at least. The Germans living there have been deported to modern-day German territory, so what would we want with a town full of Russians?
Not that I'd mind Kleine Grüne Männer in Königsberg, but mostly just to show Russia we can pull that shit too.

You are welcomed to try, though.

Interestingly, though, almost none of the mainland Russians really wanted Crimea back until we've actually got it back. It was a bit like "Oh, look, Crimea's back, great!"

[XXSockXX]

BTW, Helgoland. How many Germans want  Königsberg back?

None. None that should be Germans, at least. The Germans living there have been deported to modern-day German territory, so what would we want with a town full of Russians?
Not that I'd mind Kleine Grüne Männer in Königsberg, but mostly just to show Russia we can pull that shit too.

As in seriously toying with the idea? Very very few, on the far right. I very vaguely remember some people were trying to get a re-population project started in the 90s, but nothing came out of that. Generally getting East Prussia back is not something you hear about often, and if you do, it's either from the extreme right or from people that are pretty weird otherwise.

I guess while many people remember that it used to be an important German city, the semi-official viewpoint is that Königsberg has ceased to exist in 1945 (the German people and culture are gone from the area after all) and that there is now a new city named Kaliningrad in that place.

Realistically speaking, Eastern Prussia would be a huge burden anyway, re-unification was costly enough, having a new territory with no land connection, poor infrastructure and a mostly Russian population doesn't seem very attractive economically or geopolitically.

[Knit tie]

Alright people, I've got a question for you:

What does Putin want from the current conflict?

We know that:
1)He supported the Donbass rebels and prevented them from being defeated, so he wants something.
2)He, with the Minsk agreement, also prevented the rebels, at the peak of their success, from gaining territory and potentially reaching Kiyv and confined them within a bombed-out Novorossia, so he doesn't want land or a regime change in Kiyv.

So what does he want?

[Descan]

Obviously Germany should control the Volga because of the ancestral Volga German presence.

[Knit tie]

Obviously Germany should control the Volga because of the ancestral Volga German presence.

See, that's the reason why I don't support the Crimean reattachment: if any country can claim another country's territory as long as said territory can be said to have ever belonged to the former country and is inhabited mostly by the former country's people who want to join the former country, then geopolitics will become very, very messy.

Although, on second thought, the criteria of "used to be country A's, filled with country A's people who want to join country A" are quite specific. Anybody can give me other examples of territories like this?

[ragnar119]

Putin wants ukraine to  become a federation, so the pro russian have some influence on kiev (so they dont join NATO or maybe even EU).

There is a clear action and reaction in things that happened in ukraine, and its not that hard to see whats going around.

[Knit tie]

Putin wants ukraine to  become a federation, so the pro russian have some influence on kiev (so they dont join NATO or maybe even EU).

If Putin wants Ukraine to not join the EU and NATO, why did he settle for half-measures? Why did he not let the rebels reach Kiyv while the Ukrainian army was in absolute disarray and install a pro-Russian government?  Or, at least, why did he not let the rebels destroy the majority of the Ukraine's forces in a sweeping advance, so that Poroshenko would be much more pliable?

There is a clear action and reaction in things that happened in ukraine, and its not that hard to see whats going around.

I assure you, all things political are very hard to see through the ideology goggles.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

He, with the Minsk agreement, also prevented the rebels, at the peak of their success, from gaining territory and potentially reaching Kiyv and confined them within a bombed-out Novorossia, so he doesn't wand land or a regime change in Kiyv.

I like your weed

[XXSockXX]

So what does he want?

Good question, I hope he knows himself.

Actually while I see point 1), I'm not sure about point 2). The Minsk agreement may have weakened the rebels, but from that doesn't follow what Putins intentions about it were. You could as well argue, hypothetically, that as long as "Novorossia" is not under Ukrainian control, it might still join Russia via a fake referendum Crimea-style.

I have no idea what Putin wants, but whatever it is, he is doing a lot of damage in the process of achieving it.

[mainiac]

What does Putin want from the current conflict?

Why assume he has a coherent plan at all?  The simplest plan is he pushed his luck and was successful so he decided to push his luck again.  Sooner or later he pushes too far and Russia is in sanctions.

[Loud Whispers]

Except Russia is the only one struggling. The US doesn't want a fight with Russia. The US isn't struggling with Russia. Russia simply isn't important enough anymore for the US to bother.

The US isn't driving oil prices down because they don't want to bother Russia. Russia alongside China (and North Korea ) is one of the few nations that is capable of exerting greater hard power locally than the USA can exert internationally. Solution: America has monies, monies > militaries. If the USA can effectively neuter its rivals or make them dependent on the USA, why wouldn't it?

[mainiac]

If the US had the power to control world oil prices dont you think they would have used that power long, long ago?

[Mr. Strange]

If Putin wants Ukraine to not join the EU and NATO, why did he settle for half-measures? Why did he not let the rebels reach Kiyv while the Ukrainian army was in absolute disarray and install a pro-Russian government?

Remember how that last pro-russian gov Ukraine had ended up?
You can install puppet easily enough but it's much harder to keep them in power (and in check), something USA has noticed few times...

[Loud Whispers]

If the US had the power to control world oil prices dont you think they would have used that power long, long ago?

They're already using it.

[mainiac]

They're already using it.

So they didn't use this magical power, oh, 12 years ago because...?