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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

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Serhiy Tihipko

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Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[Sergarr]

I still don't get what's bad about having Nazis fight for you. Would you rather have them not being hit by bullets? You just have to take care of them once they get home, which is difficult in a Western European state, but should be no problem at all in countries with a less, um, squeamish populace.

They're, uh, pretty popular out there as a national heroes. Can't exactly take care of them, if that would cause a third Maidan on the heads of the current government.

[Helgoland]

Bandera? Calling him a Nazi (remember, Nazi = Nationalsozialist) is more than a little bit inaccurate. The true nazis you can take care of, but most of the other radicals on that end of the spectrum can probably be integrated into and marginalized within a democratic system - just look at the example in our thread!

[Ukrainian Ranger]

They're, uh, pretty popular out there as a national heroes. Can't exactly take care of them, if that would cause a third Maidan on the heads of the current government.

Guys like this Penya aren't popular. Like any other swastika waving guys. Yep, Ukrainian general population prefers to pretend that there are no 100% neo-nazies in our volunteer battalions  but that is simply untrue.

Formulas like "battalion X" is nazies are simply untrue. There are exactly one battalion that declares ideology of nationalism - Azov. And it has a very mixed composition. From Eastern Ukraine football fans and liberal patriots (like husband of my sister), to Russian national socialists and white racists from Sweden.

Also there are Right Sector volunteer corps, but Right Sector is less Right than commander of Azov battalion. If you ask me I am rather worried by social national assembly that uses Wolfsangel on it's banner. I'd rather see different versions of nationalism.

Unlike many from this forum I don't have a "neo-nazi? burn it with fire!!!!" mentality. I know pretty decent guys who call Hitler "a grandad".  Yeah some of their views are not smart but as long as their numbers are small they aren't dangerous

[Knit tie]

Bandera? Calling him a Nazi (remember, Nazi = Nationalsozialist) is more than a little bit inaccurate. The true nazis you can take care of, but most of the other radicals on that end of the spectrum can probably be integrated into and marginalized within a democratic system - just look at the example in our thread!

Helgo, I'm sorry, but I'll have to ask you to please clarify this post. Why Bandera? Where did he come from in this discussion? Who cares if ultraradical nationalists are technically Nazis or not Nazis? Turkish nationalsits in the early 20th century weren't Nazis, but that didn't prevent them from slaughtering Armenians in the most Nazi way possible, likewise, the OUN-UPA weren't technically Nazis, but 60,000-70,000 poles sure as hell didn't feel the difference. What do you mean by "the example in our thread"? Who's a radical in a democratic system?

[Helgoland]

Sergarr talked about national heroes - I assumed he meant Bandera, but upon closer reading I realize I was mistaken, rendering the whole discussion I wanted to start in this post moot. The example in our thread is UR, the only Ukrainian right-winger (and indeed the only Ukrainian) here.

And I think a good definition of 'radical' is 'someone who would be willing to take up arms to fight for something that is not the status quo'. That leaves out all those who'd just fight in self-defense, and all those who wish to keep things as they are.
If you want a more sharp definition, add 'without the other side attacking beforehand'.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I prefer another definition. Radical is a person who wants to change fundamental elements of existing system by using revolutionary methods.

Often Radicalism is used in place for extremism and I believe it is a wrong way to use the word

[Helgoland]

I'd consider myself a radical, but I don't believe revolutionary methods produce good results - one of my greatest role models is Deng Xiaoping. And there are countless examples of other radicals not using revolutionary methods: The Nazis, for example.


The delimitation of radicalism against extremism is interesting: I'd posit that radicalism refers to thoughts and ideals, while extremism refers to methods.

[Descan]

Posting to Ukraine.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Heh, learned insider rumors from "Svoboda" party.

Before elections "Right Sector" offered to go together by forming united list

"Svoboda" leadership answered that they agree if "Right Sector" will get something like 10% of seats.  (during elections "Svoboda" got 4.7%, "Right Sector" 1.8%. Barrier is 5%)
Oh, and they are rumors that they wanted only ethnic Ukrainians in Right Sector's list

Nice job, morons.  If one year ago someone would say me that I will be happy to see  Svoboda failure.... Things change

[Knit tie]

Speaking of "Svoboda".

Spoiler: Kiyv's MVD personnel says heil! (click to show/hide)

[smjjames]

Posting potential flamebait in your own thread? come on.

Also, please link the article that the picture came out of.

[Knit tie]

The picture came from this VV account.

Posting potential flamebait in your own thread? come on.

Also, please link the article that the picture came out of.

I am trying to move the current Russia bashing/apologism fest here from the Russia watching thread.

[smjjames]

The picture came from this VV account.

Posting potential flamebait in your own thread? come on.

Also, please link the article that the picture came out of.

I am trying to move the current Russia bashing/apologism fest here from the Russia watching thread.

Lol, okay, if you say so

[Sergarr]

The picture came from this VV account.

Posting potential flamebait in your own thread? come on.

Also, please link the article that the picture came out of.

I am trying to move the current Russia bashing/apologism fest here from the Russia watching thread.

Doesn'y help bro, it only makes it more difficult to keep track of all these threads

[Knit tie]

The picture came from this VV account.

Posting potential flamebait in your own thread? come on.

Also, please link the article that the picture came out of.

I am trying to move the current Russia bashing/apologism fest here from the Russia watching thread.

Doesn'y help bro, it only makes it more difficult to keep track of all these threads

Ypu know, maybe I really should just let the thread die.