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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

2 (11.8%)

Serhiy Tihipko

0 (0%)

Mykhailo Dobkin

0 (0%)

Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I have to disagree with you here, UR. Ukrainian government's control of mass media is rather tight. Besides, the woman in the video is hardly the only example of a civilian who dislikes Ukrainian army's behaviour.

Not a single bastard was fined, fired or imprisoned for spreading enemy propaganda, disclosing military secrets and causing panic.  That is unacceptable during wartime. OSCE, UN and other pathetic, useless organizations can say whatever they want, but Ukraine needs war censorship. Censorship we don't have

And yes, I know that there are collaborators, traitors, and simply misguided persons among civilians

[Knit tie]

Way to go with fake interviews, Russia-1: http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/24/russian-tv-borrows-diplomats-name-to-discuss-horrors-of-euromaidan/

Sorry about the EuromaidanPR, but it was the only place where I could find that news in English.

State channels everywhere lie shamelessly. In Russia I think nobody takes them even remotely seriously, with the possible exception of Russia Today, the propaganda stance of which is mostly digging up truthful dirt on the west, as told earlier by Sheb.

I have to disagree with you here, UR. Ukrainian government's control of mass media is rather tight. Besides, the woman in the video is hardly the only example of a civilian who dislikes Ukrainian army's behaviour.

Not a single bastard was fined, fired or imprisoned for spreading enemy propaganda, disclosing military secrets and causing panic.  That is unacceptable during wartime. OSCE, UN and other pathetic, useless organizations can say whatever they want, but Ukraine needs war censorship. Censorship we don't have

And yes, I know that there are collaborators, traitors, and simply misguided persons among civilians

Sweetie, if you say that Ukraine needs to go full Stalin on everyone who doesn't agree with it, you should also not complain when Russia does the same as well. And there's plenty of censorship in Ukraine, look at all the reporters you threw out.

[mainiac]

I guess the news programs have started listening to the haters of reality tv.

[Knit tie]

I guess the news programs have started listening to the haters of reality tv.

Speaking of reality TV, there is one program right now in Britain where a bunch of overpriviledged celebrities are put in mildly uncomfortable conditions in the jungle. It's hilarious. /unrelated

[Erkki]

State channels everywhere lie shamelessly.

Thats a pretty bold generalization...

BTW, Mariupol was discussed a while back. What do you people think are the chances that the Russo-Separatist operation to take over Mariupol was canceled or half-hearted at best at least partially because the city was basically swarming of media personnel the Ukrainians couldn't keep away or did not seriously even try to, and there would have been live broadcasts of the battles?

[Sergarr]

Not that big, since Ukrainian media has been pretty active all over the front in the end of August. There were people who were finding stuff like med-kits with instructions in Russian language and so on.

Live broadcasts are also very unintelligible in modern battles, especially in Ukraine, where both sides use pretty much the same vehicles.

[Knit tie]

State channels everywhere lie shamelessly.

Thats a pretty bold generalization...

BTW, Mariupol was discussed a while back. What do you people think are the chances that the Russo-Separatist operation to take over Mariupol was canceled or half-hearted at best at least partially because the city was basically swarming of media personnel the Ukrainians couldn't keep away or did not seriously even try to, and there would have been live broadcasts of the battles?

I agree with colonel Cassad here, the order not to take Mariupol came from up high due to some political reasons and was another example of how the separatist high command is being actively detrimental their war effort. None of the sides fears videos of their forces in action, there's plenty of them circulating on the internet right now.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Sweetie, if you say that Ukraine needs to go full Stalin on everyone who doesn't agree with it, you should also not complain when Russia does the same as well. And there's plenty of censorship in Ukraine, look at all the reporters you threw out.

There are shades between liberal anarchy and Stalin.

[Erkki]

Not that big, since Ukrainian media has been pretty active all over the front in the end of August. There were people who were finding stuff like med-kits with instructions in Russian language and so on.

Live broadcasts are also very unintelligible in modern battles, especially in Ukraine, where both sides use pretty much the same vehicles.

I've never said that I consider the Ukrainian media much if any more reliable than the Russian one. Despite Ukraine having a lot more to lose and is the weaker and the violated side of the conflict, I dont have to sympathize its propaganda and condemn the other side's. Ukraine still isnt a Western democracy and there has been a lot that EuromaidanPR and others have left untold.

I also wasnt thinking about which vehicles or weapons would be seen, but rather the actual brutality of, especially urban, combat. With civilians still around. Ukraine would have been seen purely as the defender(unlike before when they were attacking and clearly did not have the situation in control, even shelling their own units and bombarding urban areas) at Mariupol, which may have been considered to potential spur a lot of sympathy abroad.

[Sergarr]

Things like "popular opinions" and "sympathy" has very little bearing on modern geopolitics. It's probably the threat of freezing foreign assets that did it.

[mainiac]

The "popular opinions" and "sympathy" were big reasons in why the assets were frozen.

[Sergarr]

Popular opinions and sympathy are things that can be directed where it needs to be directed by people in charge of the media channels.

Like, for instance, with USA's invasion of Iraq, or with NATO's invasion of Libya.

Libya is still in civil war, but because there's no longer a convenient dictator-figure to hate, the public eye is completely blind to it.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

NATO's invasion of Libya

Lol

[Sergarr]

NATO's invasion of Libya

Lol

Well it was more of intervention, okay. Still doesn't change the fact that the country is now much worse than it was before, with no good end in sight.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

NATO's invasion of Libya

Lol

Well it was more of intervention, okay. Still doesn't change the fact that the country is now much worse than it was before, with no good end in sight.

Good thing Russia stopped the resolution then