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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

2 (11.8%)

Serhiy Tihipko

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Mykhailo Dobkin

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Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[mainiac]

 

Yeah you don't get that anywhere then wasting a bunch of time scrounging up old records and intermittently talking to a Sargent about what else they want.

[Knit tie]

Yeah you don't get that anywhere then wasting a bunch of time scrounging up old records and intermittently talking to a Sargent about what else they want.

It was supposed to be a joke about how confrontational our political discussion has been until very resently. I am sorry for that, by the way, and hope you didn't take it all personally.

[mainiac]

Jokes of that nature can be hard to detect.

[Sheb]

Well, I got it. You are very confrontational mainiac: time and time again I find myself agreeing with you in substance, but wishing you were wrong just so I could put you down.

[Guardian G.I.]

It's not paranoia if people actually are out to get you.

Of course, the ones actually out to get each other are old men who're still stuck in the Seventies, but they're still there.

And guess who gets to actually die? I am being serious here, if an all-out war starts I'll get a conscription notice and go and fight.

Me too.
Also, since I live in a major border town, the very first NATO bombs and shells will fall on my intolerably totalitarian head.

[Knit tie]

It's not paranoia if people actually are out to get you.

Of course, the ones actually out to get each other are old men who're still stuck in the Seventies, but they're still there.

And guess who gets to actually die? I am being serious here, if an all-out war starts I'll get a conscription notice and go and fight.

Me too.
Also, since I live in a major border town, the very first NATO bombs and shells will fall on my intolerably totalitarian head.

The worst thing about NATO bombs is that they are laser-guided and almost never miss.

[Sheb]

Oh, just stay more than 200m from the nearest Chinese Embassy and you'll be safe: them devious Chineses have bomb-magnets hidden in their embassies to steal our glorious bomb technology!

[Guardian G.I.]

It's not paranoia if people actually are out to get you.

Of course, the ones actually out to get each other are old men who're still stuck in the Seventies, but they're still there.

And guess who gets to actually die? I am being serious here, if an all-out war starts I'll get a conscription notice and go and fight.

Me too.
Also, since I live in a major border town, the very first NATO bombs and shells will fall on my intolerably totalitarian head.

The worst thing about NATO bombs is that they are laser-guided and almost never miss.

As history shows, they can accidentally and completely unintentionally fly off-course and hit some civilians or Chinese diplomats.

EDIT: kind of ninja'd by Sheb.

[Knit tie]

But let's get back onto tracks: can anybody imagine the future of this conflict? Obama has so far refused all of Putin's attempts to reach a compromise at the G20, while Vova has equally steadfastly refused to yield to the western demands and intends to make this a show of will. Escalation, both in warfare and in rhethoric, seems inevitable, and in the worst case scenario we will get another positional artillery war with no clear goal and, consequently, piles of corpses.

[Sheb]

Honestly, at this point I can only see two ways out: an Ukrainian military victory (meaning Russia decide to stop supporting the rebels at some point), or a sedimentation of the conflict, leaving the DNR and LNR as empoverished statelets like Transdnistria.

[Erkki]

But let's get back onto tracks: can anybody imagine the future of this conflict? Obama has so far refused all of Putin's attempts to reach a compromise at the G20, while Vova has equally steadfastly refused to yield to the western demands and intends to make this a show of will. Escalation, both in warfare and in rhethoric, seems inevitable, and in the worst case scenario we will get another positional artillery war with no clear goal and, consequently, piles of corpses.

Uhh, exactly what Putin's attempts to reach compromises? Also Obama's USA is not directly involved(if it or the NATO had been giving direct military help, do you think the so called peoples republics would still exist?)

Its been all rhetorics so far. To a good part from both sides(I'm thinking Tony Abbott et CO.).

Honestly, at this point I can only see two ways out: an Ukrainian military victory (meaning Russia decide to stop supporting the rebels at some point), or a sedimentation of the conflict, leaving the DNR and LNR as empoverished statelets like Transdnistria.

Those would be the two best out of all the many bad ones, while still realistic, to me too.

[Sergarr]

But let's get back onto tracks: can anybody imagine the future of this conflict? Obama has so far refused all of Putin's attempts to reach a compromise at the G20, while Vova has equally steadfastly refused to yield to the western demands and intends to make this a show of will. Escalation, both in warfare and in rhethoric, seems inevitable, and in the worst case scenario we will get another positional artillery war with no clear goal and, consequently, piles of corpses.

Uhh, exactly what Putin's attempts to reach compromises? Also Obama's USA is not directly involved(if it or the NATO had been giving direct military help, do you think the so called peoples republics would still exist?)

Its been all rhetorics so far. To a good part from both sides(I'm thinking Tony Abbott et CO.).

Honestly, at this point I can only see two ways out: an Ukrainian military victory (meaning Russia decide to stop supporting the rebels at some point), or a sedimentation of the conflict, leaving the DNR and LNR as empoverished statelets like Transdnistria.

Those would be the two best out of all the many bad ones, while still realistic, to me too.

Minsk agreements? Of course it's not like anybody actually wants to actually carry these out, but still, with these agreements the war has become positional, instead of mobile.

Which arguably made it even worse.

[Knit tie]

Honestly, at this point I can only see two ways out: an Ukrainian military victory (meaning Russia decide to stop supporting the rebels at some point), or a sedimentation of the conflict, leaving the DNR and LNR as empoverished statelets like Transdnistria.

With an economy threatening to default and an increasingly unstable political climate, Ukraine itself may end us as Transdnistria, or, more precisely, as another -stan. But hey, that means new shipment of Russian Brides and cheap immigrant labor for the Europe again, just like in the 90s!

@Erkki,

Putin wanted to reach another agreement, like the Minsk one, but Cameron and co. didn't want another agreement because, frankly, they couldn't care less about Ukraine, but they cared a lot about letting Putin win. They wanted him to yield like Yelstin did in Yugoslavia, but Vovochka has decided that he can handle the sanctions and refused to de-escalate conflict on any terms but his own. Hence the standoff.

[mainiac]

But let's get back onto tracks: can anybody imagine the future of this conflict? Obama has so far refused all of Putin's attempts to reach a compromise at the G20

I predict that Russians will continue to blame Obama for their own aggression.

[Knit tie]

But let's get back onto tracks: can anybody imagine the future of this conflict? Obama has so far refused all of Putin's attempts to reach a compromise at the G20

I predict that Russians will continue to blame Obama for their own aggression.

I predict that arguing with you is useless, so I am not going to comment your posts any further.